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Sitefinity 4.0 Licensing Model

by Martin Kirov

Over the past few months, we’ve indicated that the pricing and licensing model of Sitefinity will change with the release of Sitefinity 4. Now that the Sitefinity 4 official release is near, we want to share the full licensing and pricing details.

We listened very closely to you, our customers and community, while creating Sitefinity’s new licensing model. Based on your extensive input, we have worked to create a licensing model that is flexible while remaining simple, with goal of making Sitefinity available to projects of any size. Today we’d like to provide some insight on how we created the new licensing model so that the transition to the new model is smooth and transparent. Our goal is to provide all customers with ample time to evaluate the new model and with a clear migration path to 4.0.

Limits of the current licensing model

Sitefinity’s current licensing model is very popular and has served thousands of CMS projects around the globe, but it has key limits that prevent Sitefinity from being usable in every project. Among the key limits that we aim to resolve with the new Sitefinity 4 licensing model are:

  1. Only one commercial license type. To use Sitefinity in a commercial project today, there is a single licensing option, the Standard Edition. While simple, this model lacks the flexibility and scalability to equally address the range of CMS project requirements, from startup to Enterprise. A new model is needed to ensure Sitefinity can fully serve the needs of projects of all sizes.
  2. No multi-domain configuration. Many companies host multiple websites on the Sitefinity platform, but today’s licensing model does little to offer the flexibility to treat some sites as more important than others. A new model is needed to provide the pricing flexibility Sitefinity requires to serve complex, multi-domain environments.
  3. No entry-level license. Every website is not created equally, and therefore many of Sitefinity’s more advanced features are unnecessary in smaller projects. Today’s licensing lacks a targeted option for web projects with limited needs and limited budgets. A new model is needed to provide affordable entry-level pricing with a clear and easy upgrade path that can grow with a company’s requirements.

Ultimately, we want to make Sitefinity as accessible as possible to projects of all sizes, and that requires a more modern licensing model that can account for the vast range of project sizes and complexities unaddressed by today’s licensing.

Removing licensing limits: Sitefinity 4 License Model

After careful consideration and attention to resolving the limits of today’s licensing model, the Sitefinity 4 licensing model will:

  • Provide licensing flexibility based on project size and requirements
  • Enable streamlined multi-domain licensing configurations
  • Introduce entry-level licensing for small businesses and personal use

Let’s examine each of these in detail and provide more specifics for how Telerik will improve the Sitefinity 4 licensing model.

1. Licensing flexibility

The Sitefinity 4.0 licensing model will introduce three new license editions:

  • Small Business Edition
  • Professional Edition
  • Professional Unlimited Edition

These editions will join the existing Community Edition and Standard Edition, making a total of four commercial and one non-commercial (community) license options. The Professional and Professional Unlimited Editions will include all Sitefinity features, and the other editions will include a subset of these features. This will deliver licensing flexibility based on project size and requirements.

2. Multi-domain licensing configuration

With the new Sitefinity editions, it is now possible to target specific Sitefinity domains with the feature set required. For example, it is no longer necessary to pay the same amount for a small marketing microsite as for a main corporate site. The smaller microsite can be built with Sitefinity Small Business Edition, while the main corporate site licenses the Professional Edition.

In addition, the new licensing model provides a 50% discount on additional licenses of the same type when used for the same end-client organization. Combined with licensing flexibility, these discounts deliver the licensing solution you need to support multiple domains as part of your overall web strategy.

3. Entry-level licensing

To ensure Sitefinity 4 is available as a premiere platform for startups and small businesses, the new licensing model introduces the Small Business Edition. It’s intended for businesses with more limited web presence needs, and provides an excellent starting point with a clear upgrade path to other editions. As a business grows, the Sitefinity platform is capable of growing and serving more complex business requirements and configurations.

Other important licensing changes

Sitefinity 4 will continue to primarily base licenses on root-level domains (with unlimited sub-domains). Organizations of different sizes, however, also need greater flexibility for enabling content editors to interact with the Sitefinity platform, so Sitefinity 4 will introduce a new licensing variable: concurrent CMS users.

Every Sitefinity 4 license comes with a fixed number of concurrent CMS users, which determines how many people can work in the Sitefinity administration area at the same time. This does not limit the total number of authorized CMS users, but rather the number of users that can work in the Sitefinity backend at the same time. As one user logs-out, another can log-in. This change also does not affect the public site or visitors who authenticate on restricted areas of a website.

In short, every Sitefinity 4 domain license comes with a defined set of features and a fixed number of concurrent CMS users. The flexibility of the licensing model, of course, enables both variables to scale based on project requirements (with the various editions) and need for concurrent CMS users (again with the various editions).

These changes have been made in direct response to customer and partner feedback about what’s needed to make Sitefinity a perfect platform for CMS projects of any scope and budget. It’s our goal with the new licensing model to make Sitefinity your platform of choice for projects of any size, regardless of difference in scope.

New Pricing

Clearly, an important part of the licensing changes with Sitefinity 4 is pricing. Just as we’ve worked to make the licensing configuration more flexible, we’ve also made pricing more flexible with Sitefinity 4 to address a greater range of project requirements. As such, pricing will typically be customized for your specific project needs, based on your need for specific Sitefinity editions and concurrent content editors. To provide a baseline perspective of the new licensing options, though, here is how the Sitefinity 4 editions will be priced:

  • Community Edition (non-commercial): No charge
  • Small Business Edition: starting at $499
  • Standard Edition: starting at $1,999
  • Professional Edition: starting at $7,999
  • Professional Unlimited Edition: $19,999

These pricing options aim to cover projects of all sizes, from personal websites to Enterprise deployments. For a complete overview of Sitefinity 4 pricing and edition features please visit the Sitefinity 4 licensing page.

At Telerik, we always strive to treat our customers fairly and with respect for the challenges changes like this can create for your process. We are committed to working closely with you, our existing customers, to make sure the transition to the new licensing model is as smooth as possible. We are announcing today two things we will do to help with this change:

  1. All customers with active subscriptions at the time of the official release will receive Sitefinity 4 Standard Edition at no additional cost as part of their subscriptions. If you have a license with an expired subscription, you can renew it and receive Sitefinity 4 at no additional cost as part of the renewed subscription.
  2. All existing customers (those who have purchased a Sitefinity Standard Edition license before November 11) will be given the option to upgrade to the Sitefinity 4 Professional and Professional Unlimited Editions at half price by April 15th. Please contact us for additional details about this special offer.

Purchase of Sitefinity Licenses Going Forward

Everyone can continue to purchase Standard Edition licenses at the current pricing ($899) until the official release. All existing licenses will receive Sitefinity 4 Standard Edition ($1,999) as part of the license subscription when the final version is available.

This means you can start development with Sitefinity 4 with the Release Candidate and easily upgrade to the official release with the help of the project manager. Technical support for Sitefinity 4 is available to all Sitefinity 3.x licenses with active subscriptions so it is entirely up to you whether you start projects today using Sitefinity 3.7 or 4.0.

The official release of Sitefinity 4 is planned for January 14. This should allow enough time to evaluate the best options for transitioning existing projects to Sitefinity 4 and to acquire licenses at the current pricing for current and near-future projects. After the official release of Sitefinity 4, Sitefinity 3.x will no longer be available for sale.

Reduced Early Subscription Renewal Rates

Currently, both early (pre-expiry) and late (post-expiry) subscription renewals cost 30% of the original license (currently $269).After the Sitefinity 4 official release, we’ll reduce our early subscription renewal rates from 30% to 20%. You can review the renewal and upgrade options for all Sitefinity 4 license types here.

With the new licensing model, we believe Telerik will be able to provide more licensing flexibility that addresses the feedback we’ve received from customers and partners, and make Sitefinity the perfect platform for web projects of all sizes. We will work quickly to respond to any questions and help make the transition from Sitefinity 3.x to Sitefinity 4 smooth, both from a technological and licensing standpoint. For even more answers to Sitefinity 4 licensing model questions, visit the official Sitefinity 4 Licensing FAQ page.

Martin Kirov
Sitefinity Business Development Manager
Telerik

69 comments

Leave a comment
  1. Steve Nov 11, 2010
    Great, so what gets locked out in which version?
  2. Matthew Nov 11, 2010
    Steve,

    You can view the feature comparison table here: http://www.sitefinity.com/purchase/license-comparison.aspx.
  3. Mike Blaumen Nov 11, 2010
    I must say your new pricing is a big disappointment for me. I was hoping that you introduce some more affordable pricing. I can get much more features for lower price with Kentico CMS. We were hoping that we will be able to switch to Sitefinity since Kentico is too expensive for some of our projects, but now I have no words...

    I think the key when looking at the new licensing model is to decide which edition you actually need for your project and see if anything the project requires is missing. Such constructive feedback is always welcome and I promise you we will consider it seriously.

    With regard to the number of features, i think looking at that alone is not a good factor of deciding on which system to use. Features are check boxes and in many cases are half-baked. What matters more is not how many features a product has, but whether it has the features you need and if they actually work as you's expect. So getting back to the initial discussion, we'd love to learn more about which features are missing in the Small Business Edition for your projects.

    Martin Kirov
    Sitefinity Business Development Manager
    Telerik 

  4. Simon Nov 11, 2010
    I am sure much thought was given to the new licensing model for Sitefinity 4.0, and certainly there are many new and enhanced features offered in the upcoming version. However, the price jump from Standard to Professional is so extreme.

    One of the exciting, and differentiating, new features about 4.0 is the integrated analytics. It is disappointing to see this feature is only included at the $8000.00 level. Additionally, something that was not covered in today's webinar, are the granular permissions available in 4.0. It appears that even the Standard license only buys you the same functionality as the free Community license.

    Personally, I am pissed that I sold my client on Sitefinity 3.7 Standard with the promise of great "new" features coming in Sitefinity 4.0, many of which will not be available without an additional $6K.

    We are seriously considering adding the Analytics module and the granular permissions to the Standard Edition. We are still discussing this internally, but having them in the Standard Edition is a valid point and we always consider good feedback seriously.

    We are currently deciding on our roadmap for 2011 and I can assure you that we will deliver a lot of features for all editions in the coming year which all customers with active subscriptions will receive at no extra cost.  We will deliver on our promise and won't let you or your customers down.

    As a last note, all existing customers(i.e. have purchased a license before the RC announcement) are eligible for a 50% discount on upgrades to either of the Professional Editions until April 15.

    Martin Kirov

    Telerik

  5. AP Nov 11, 2010
    I'm quite disappointed about the prices as well. I'm evaluating version 3.7 against other CMS's, including free/open source licenses. Sitefinity's prices were friendly compared to some of the other commercial systems. But now, when starting a new website with two languages, the price tag has increased from $899 to $1999. That's 122%! Renewals have increased by about 50%.

    The Small Business license is great, but there are a lot of (still small) websites that need more than one language or one concurrent user. The gap between Small Business and Standard is just way too much. I'm afraid you'll loose lots of potential new customers with small to average budgets.
  6. Jon Nov 11, 2010
    Honestly, I'm shocked by the new pricing scheme because it's no longer cost effective for smaller projects. Let's face it, even if I swallow the $2,000 price tag on the standard edition I still get a cut down version of the system, and less ability than I had in SF 3.7, so why would I want this? I appreciate your desire to take a bite at the larger cms market, but is it really necessary to do this at the expense of loyal users who use the system to build smaller budget projects? Sitefinity filled this niche beautifully in the past, but for me it no longer does...

    off to look for another platform... goodbye Sitefinity and so long, it was good until you got greedy.

    The truth is simple - the current licensing and pricing model simply does not work for us and it cannot maintain the efforts we are making in developing and supporting Sitefinity.  We are not changing our licensing model because of greed or a desire to take a bigger bit of the CMS market. We are changing it to allow us to fuel the development and support that our customers expect from us. So we can either keep the current model and slow down on the development of Sitefinity or we can adjust our licensing model and keep and increase the pace with which Sitefinity is maturing. The first approach would mean to gradually marginalize Sitefinity which would be the worst thing for everyone who is using Sitefinity. The second approach  bears the risk of losing a part of our customers, but will allow us to better cater to everyone who already invested in Sitefinity. Unfortunately we cannot please everyone, but we try to please as many as possible.

    As for the new scheme not being effective for smaller projects, it is exactly for the smaller projects that we decided to introduce the Small Business Edition. I think the most important thing when when looking at the licensing options is to see where a particular project fits in the 4.0 licensing scheme. I get your frustration that you are not receiving all features with the Small Business or Standard Editions, but it would help to know which particular features you are missing. 

    Martin Kirov

    Telerik

  7. Jaime Nov 11, 2010
    I have 3.7 and have been very impressed with its abilities for its price. I was quick to purchase Sitefinity even though it would take a while before I was able to implement it on my site because I did think the price was too good to be true. That being said, I'm not surprised you raised your prices and expanded your licensing options.

    But 5 concurrent users for standard edition? Pay 4 times more and you only get 5 more concurrent users? Is this a joke?

    I just want to make sure that we are on the same page with what a concurrent CMS user is. Concurrent CMS users are the users logged in the Sitefinity administration are at the same time. When the user limit is reached, as soon as someone logs out, another user can log in. There are settings for session timeouts and administrators can log any user off. That being said, the total number of users who have access to the system is unlimited, it is just the users who are logged in at the same time that count.

    With regard to what you get with the Professional Edition, we do realize that the difference in features between the two editions is not that big at the moment. As we roll out new releases(we will release 3 times per year starting in 2011) there will be more things differentiating between the two editions. And do not be worried - we don't plan to pump all new features in the higher editions. We will cater to the customers of all editions and will add new things to every edition with the next releases.

    We realize that we cannot change our licensing model frequently so we are setting the framework now and will add more features to each edition with the next releases. All new releases will be available at no extra cost to everyone who maintains their subscription active.

    I work for a school district and each campus has at least one CMS user. Some campuses have 2 or more. Add in departments and I have over 100 users and I'm supposed to allow 5 or 10 users at a time? That's ridiculous! We can't afford Professional Unlimited. The renewal alone for Professional Unlimited is over 4 times what I paid for a single license in 3.x.

    I want to upgrade but you haven't given me any realistic options. As happy as I was when I first found Sitefinity I am now equally disappointed with this new licensing change.

    Upgrading to Sitefinity 4 is optional for everyone who is using Sitefinity 3.x. As an existing customer, you are getting Sitefinity 4 Standard Edition at no extra cost(if your subscription is active). We also offer a 50% discount to existing customers for upgrades to either of the Professional Editions. While we believe that these are fair offers and allow for a smooth transition to the new licensing model, we do realize that it may not work for everyone. We do try to please as many customers as we can, but we realize we cannot please all.  


    Also, if you are in the mood to add licensing changes, why not add licensing for non-profits and educational organizations?

  8. Steve Webb Nov 11, 2010
    I see the jump from $900 to $2000 as not a big deal. If you compare features everything that is in 3.7 is now in 4.0 plus you get the new Forms Module and, I don't know about you but you also get a better all around product that can be enhanced easily. Did you also notice that the standard edition gets unlimited support, good luck getting that with Joomla or another open CMS.

    It's rare that a small organization that can't afford $2000 will have more than 50 pages of content and 500 news items so really it will cost them $500 instead of $900. I think the key here is to identify the actual requirements of the site before deciding on the license.
  9. Steve Webb Nov 11, 2010
    Stinking refresh button, sorry for the multiple posts.
  10. Neil Nov 11, 2010
    I agree with Steve Webb (twice) after the initial shock the $2000 for standard is reasonable but can't see me selling many professional editions.

    Reading the general discussions for Sitefinity 4 you have to compromise, start with analytics for all licences types at least.
  11. Anthony Nov 11, 2010
    The limit to the number of users may be a deal breaker for us.  We are a large organization that is a non-profit, and to go from paying 899 to 10000k to upgrade the 3.7 version we bought 2.5 months ago is going to be a hard sell. 

     I find it hard to believe that no one knew the price was going up this much until today.  Telerik and Sitefinity had to know this was coming and should have been upfront with people who purchased a Sitefinity license in the last 4 months expecting to upgrade to 4.0.  Going from unlimited users to 5 with no option to just add more users is hard.  I would be okay with paying for Professional if it allowed unlimited users.

    I think people bought the 3.7 expecting a upgrade to a similar product with 4.0. Going from unlimited users to only 5 is totally unexpected, and needing Professional to get load balance capability is problematic at the least. 

    Hopefully Telerik/Sitefinity will think this out and make it right, or at least something we can live with.
  12. J Nov 11, 2010
    $6K jump to add Analytics, Workflow, Granular Permissions and NLB support?  Proud much?
  13. J Nov 11, 2010
    Surely it didn't cost Telerik near that much to add those 4 features.  That's not cost recovery, that's trying to take advantage of a larger company with too much money (which I'm usually in favor of).  I can even understand the huge jump to include Source Code.  But $6000 from Standard to Pro is absolutely ridiculous!

    When looking at a feature and the value it adds you cannot really look at how much time and effort it took to develop it. We've put more than a year of work in the Sitefinity framework which did not produce a single feature. I've always liked the iceberg analogy for a CMS. Similar to an iceberg, what you see in a CMS as features is just the tip of what the whole thing. Like an iceberg, the bigger part of Sitefinity is "underwater"

    The source code does not add any incremental value as anything you need to extend Sitefinity can be done through the API(we put a lot of effort here as well). The source code availability is an insurance for larger organizations and they are the ones which typically require it.

  14. Jeff Lawlor Nov 11, 2010
    Wow. I'm almost at a loss for words. Here's one the Sitefinity team should learn: Hubris.

    For my project, I would have buy the full $20K version for one reason: The number of users.

    If it wasn't for that, I could get by with $8K version.

    Neither price-point is in my budget.

    I will be sticking with 3.7 for the forseeable future. When that's no longer feasible, I'm going to take a good look at your competition again, as I did a couple of years ago when I found Sitefinity.

    For the customers that remain, you'd better do a much, much, much better job at documentation and testing if you want to keep them.

    I've been willing to put up with these deficiences in 3.x because it is so affordable. At 10 to 20 times the cost, I wouldn't stand for them.

    I was excited about Sitefinity 4.0. As of today, I'm no longer interested.

    Jeff

    --

    Hi Jeff, 

    There seems to be a lot confusion about what is meant by "concurrent users".  Users are editors who are simultaneously logged into the backend of Sitefinity. Users are not public web site users. 

    I just want to ensure we're in sync on this definition.  If we are in sync, then it would help for us to understand more about your use case.  It’s hard for us to understand a project that requires an unlimited number of concurrent (simultaneous) editors that also has a budget of less than $8k.

    Understanding these details will greatly help us.

     

  15. Jeff Lawlor Nov 11, 2010
    Now that I think of it, half of the deficiencies in documentation and testing are in OpenAccess and ASP.NET Controls. It's hard to see how the "new Sitefinity" is going to fix that.

    Any way you look at it, Sitefinity is shooting itself in the foot with this new pricing scheme.
  16. Mike M Nov 11, 2010

    Our choice is between SiteFinity and Kentico with the project to start January of 2011. SiteFinity was going to be my choice, but with the new pricing its not going to happen. We have several different languages each with their own domain. The $2000 price tag was doable, but the limited number of concurrent users and the page only security, just blew the deal. Jumping from $2000 to $8000 for the Professional package - what ever happened to the happy medium?

     

    If you guys decide to come back down to earth, please email me at mikemc777@yahoo.com

  17. Patrick Nov 12, 2010
    For almost all small companies in Europe it is very important to have a multilanguage web site. Even with less then 50 pages. Now Sitefinity is more then double the prize for those companies. I think you guys should at least consider to enable the multilanguage support for the small bussiness version. I agree with Mike, please come down to earth.
  18. Paul K Nov 12, 2010
    I'm shocked... So many posts and promises about how great SF4 will be and just one post about pricing. It is a big disappointment. Please, Sitefinity Team review your thoughts about pricing or you will lose a lot of customers.

    We’re always open to feedback.  Getting real-world details and use cases will help us understand your projects and challenges.  

  19. Andrei Nov 12, 2010
    Wow, that's bad news. We were shipping Sitefinity along with our product to our customers. We have a new project coming up now which we have quoted them based on the old price. Thought it won't be much difference. But now, it looks like we will have to look for another CMS to ship with our product. Shame though we got used to Sitefinity a bit.

    You can take advantage of the current pricing until the official release of Sitefinity 4 which is planned for January 14.

    Took away more features then were added and doubled the price. Nice move!

    We've added quite a few new features in Sitefinity 4 and a few more are still under development for the official release. I'd be interested to learn more about the features that you were using in 3.7 which are not available with 4.0.I can assure you that any Sitefinity 3 feature which is left our from the 4.0 release will be added next year and will be a much better and more usable implementation than the one we had  in Sitefinity 3.

  20. Martin Kirov Nov 12, 2010

    Hi,

    Thank you for your feedback and suggestions. We are listening to your input and will address your comments individually.

    When commenting on the new licensing model, please formulate your input in a constructive way with specific examples of how the new model does or does not map with the requirements of the typical projects you work on. This is the only way we can understand where the proposed model may need some extra polishing. We will seriously consider all valid suggestions we get and any potential tweaks we may decide to introduce in the proposed model will be made only if we believe in the validity of the arguments behind them.

    Martin Kirov
    Sitefinity Business Development Manager
    Telerik

  21. Andrei Nov 12, 2010
    Ok Martin, sorry for not being constructive.

    Here is my problem. I develop for a specific market which is not interested in Blogs, Analytics, and all the rest. They just want a simple skeleton that does pages and documents in libraries. Up to now we were giving them the Standard version at $899. In fact we have got a contract now to supply another Sitefinity (which we quoted at $899) thinking that 4.0 would not be too different.

    The Sitefinity 3.7 pricing and licensing will be in effect until mid. January so this should not have an impact on any current or near future projects.


    The main desired features are:
    1 - Concurrent CMS users (preferably unlimited, but if you make it 20 max I am happy)

    Any business which has more than 5 CMS users working with the system at the same time(the total number of CMS users is unlimited and customers/community members who authenticate on restricted areas on the website do not count) is either a mid-sized to large organization or most of their business is online. We are a company of 300+ and our entire business is on the web - http://www.telerik.com/. All product purchase and delivery, access to support and resources, etc. is delivered through our website. In our case somewhere between 15 and 20 concurrent users would be enough at any time, including the peaks around the Q releases. Don't get me wrong, we have not based our licensing model on what we'd need or can afford as an organization. I just can't accept that with all the costs related to developing, launching and maintaining a successful web project(development, design, customization hosting, etc., the cost of the system that powers it should be a small fraction of the entire budget.

    2 - Network Load Balancing (the industry is high safety so its crucial). I want to install the Sitefinity on two Web Servers and use Windows Server 2008 to network load balance between them in case one web server dies. Even for small businesses that is important I should think. If the single server dies then the business is down.

    We understand that safety is crucial, but how do the hosting fees of the two servers per year compare to the cost of Sitefinity? How about the increased developer productivity(more information in the PDF report on this page) which saves lots of development hours(typically starting at $100 per hour) with every project? Does anyone consider making compromises with any of the other costs related to creating and maintaining a web project or is it just the system that powers it that is too expensive? 

    I understand that all customers have a choice and based on the project requirement one system may be a better fit than other. I just want us to be aware of how all the costs involved in a CMS implementation and the importance of the CMS in the context of the entire project. At the end of the day the new model had to be introduced so that Sitefinity can continue to evolve as a product with a quick pace so that all existing and new customers can benefit from that. Unfortunately this is not possible with the $899 price point.

    Just because of Network Load balancing not being available in Standard I would have to reconsider using Sitefinity because the next level up is just way to expensive for the features my customers want.

    Think about the Network Load Balancing again please.
    Many thanks,
    Andrei
  22. Kiril Jovchev Nov 12, 2010
    Hi,

    We have been considering Sitefinity for quite a while and having quite a few of our customers really interested in it.

    The standard edition sounds quite fine for most of out customers as price range, but all of them need Load Balancing, all of them need site that doesn't die when one of the servers dies. So this is a killer for the choice. 

    I would suggest as you asked as to be constructive, please add option to purchase also separate user licenses, e.g. 50e per user, and separate Item licenses, eg. 100e for 1000 items. 
    There are organizations that need a lot more editors and a lot more items to be produced in the CMS and they are not ready to pay the 8k price tag.

    Initially we considered this alternative and the Standard Edition was going to start with 2 concurrent users with the option to add up to 5 and Professional would start at 5 with the option to add up to 10 total users. We then decided to make this simpler and just added the maximum number of users to all editions as standard. The user limitation is for concurrent users and we are not limiting the total number of users(you can have as many as you like, all with their unique credentials). We only limit the CMS users which are working in the Sitefinity back end at the same time. 

    With regard to affordability, Sitefinity is typically a small part of the entire budget of a website implementation, but the system is the heart of the project. At the end of the day the client pays for the entire project and it is challenging to believe that development, customization, design, project management, hosting and all the other components of a successful website project are affordable and the only place where a compromise can be made is the cost of the system. We have a partnership program which offers discounts on all Sitefinity purchases of as much as 30%. Whether partners decide to add this revenue to their margin or transfer this to their client is entirely up to them


    //Kiril
  23. Andrei Nov 12, 2010
    Ok Martin, sorry for not being constructive.

    Here is my problem. I develop for a specific market which is not interested in Blogs, Analytics, and all the rest. They just want a simple skeleton that does pages and documents in libraries. Up to now we were giving them the Standard version at $899. In fact we have got a contract now to supply another Sitefinity (which we quoted at $899) thinking that 4.0 would not be too different.

    The main desired features are:
    1 - Concurrent CMS users (preferably unlimited, but if you make it 20 max I am happy) 
    2 - Network Load Balancing (the industry is high safety so its crucial). I want to install the Sitefinity on two Web Servers and use Windows Server 2008 to network load balance between them in case one web server dies. Even for small businesses that is important I should think. If the single server dies then the business is down.

    Just because of Network Load balancing not being available in Standard I would have to reconsider using Sitefinity because the next level up is just way to expensive for the features my customers want.

    Think about the Network Load Balancing again please.
    Many thanks,
    Andrei
  24. Ron B Nov 12, 2010
    I have done many sites with Sitefinity 3.x and was able to sell it at $899 with no complaints. However, the model has too many limitations on the features. The SBE seems more like the community edition than something for small businesses. I think you should have the following pricing:

    Community Edition: No charge
    Standard and SBE Combined: 1299
    Professional: 4999
    Prof Unlimited: 19999

    Most small businesses need what is in the Standard edition, so just eliminate SBE and use Standard at the same price for 3.x. I think basically by eliminating the SBE, adding Analytics to the Standard, you would probably make everyone happy. I get the source code costing a lot more, that is Telerik's hard work. I just think that the jumps were too large for your growing community to handle. I am not sure I understand the limitation on users for Professional.

    I am sure that your company evaluated the market, but it seems like you looked at the wrong results. It was said in the webinar that you were looked over by some of the larger companies or projects because of price. As a CTO, price is one of the first things I look at, but it is more features. If I find a system that offers the same features, with the same development time, then I will go with the cheaper system. I will look for performance benchmarks, ease of development, etc. Those are the basis of my decision. Just increasing the price will not make you a viable competitor in the larger market. Only marketing/advertising, and having those features that the larger competitors have will make you competitive. With this pricing scheme, you will probably find that you will lose more customers than you gain, and that will slow the development cycle of Sitefinity even more.
  25. Andrei Nov 12, 2010
    Ok, I am not reposting anything. This page is going wrong. I posted that one time only and then just refreshes to see the latest. It keeps adding my post again and again. Not my fault.
  26. Chanan Nov 12, 2010
    Sitefinity is a beautiful product (we've bought 3 licenses in the last year), but it's not perfect (localization is an issue we've struggled with every step of the way).
    It is what it is now also due to customers' contributions (we've "donated" the Italian translation being packaged today with the product). I'm sure many of these faithful costumers, us at least, feel a bit betrayed by the new approach.
    In short, our budgets will have to be multiplied by at least 5 now. I'm afraid many European companies would just dismiss such budgets right away (we bought one license for a multi-national corporation that I'm sure would have rejected a $5,000 CMS).
    What's important for us?
    - greater number of concurrent users for the standard edition;
    - greater discounts for companies buying more than 3, 5, 10 licenses over time;
    - no analytics (we get our own with Google);
    - open all templates (front-end and back-end) and controls to localization;
    - remember the current world economic crisis.

  27. J Nov 12, 2010
    Let me begin by saying, I'm grateful for everything Telerik and the Sitefinity team has done to date for me and the community.  It actually pains me to post things like this and I'm trying to understand and not be mean, but...

    You ask us, your consumers, to validate or justify why we disagree with the new license model ("We will seriously consider all valid suggestions...if we believe in the validity of the arguments behind them").  Yet, you haven't done much in the other direction to validate to us, your consumers, why you think this tremendous price jump from Standard to Professional Edition is warranted other than to say "If it's worth it to you...".  Sure, IF the customer thinks it's WORTH and CAN AFFORD $6000 extra for Analytics, Workflow, Granular Permissions, NLB support and additional concurrent users, they will buy it.  As I think you can see, very few of us do.  Analytics is already free, you've only provided a proxy.  Workflow could easily be added.  NLB should only consist of InProc vs. OutOfProc session.  To try and phrase it constructively..."While the 5 additional features mentioned above provide BENEFIT, they don't provide $6000 (+$3k each for multiple additional domains) more VALUE to the product."  Perhaps you should try to convince us why you think these prices are justified.

    P.S. - Remember, a company needs consumers, not the other way around.  Thanks again for everything done to date.  I hope we don't have to sever our relationship.
  28. Gabe Sumner Nov 12, 2010
    Yet, you haven't done much in the other direction to validate to us, your consumers, why you think this tremendous price jump from Standard to Professional Edition is warranted other than to say "If it's worth it to you...".

    Hi J.  I very much respect your comment above.  And there are a lot of answers to your challenge:

    - New features
    - Enhanced developer productivity
    - Performance & scalability
    - Enhanced end-user productivity & empowerment

    Throughout the pre-release period for 4.0 I've tried to demonstrate some of these advantages.  However, it's hard to encourage real-world use of a pre-release project.  With 4.0 now in RC we will now focus heavily on demonstrating this value in action.

    I'm sure the pricing conversation will continue, but from my perspective I want to help everyone see the value in 4.0.  We know there are alternatives to Sitefinity, but we believe we've created a platform which will empower customers to get more done with less.  It's time to show this in action.

    Gabe Sumner
    Telerik | Sitefinity CMS
  29. Mark K. Nov 13, 2010
    For the features that I will get for 2k I'd say that I'll grab the bargain. I hope that sales team will give me a discount if I buy 5 licenses, 20 % will be great for me. The product is very slick.
    2k is nothing with comparison with the money I'd pay to may devs to do this job. We used other CMSs before and I haven't seen a better product and support than Sitefinity and what Telerik does so far. These guys rocks.
  30. Jeff Lawlor Nov 14, 2010
    Hi Martin,

    I appreciate your reply.

    Yes, I do understand the difference between concurrent users and total users.

    I'm using Sitefinity to run a web portal. Like iGoogle, many people may be logged in at the same time even if they aren't actively creating content.

    Consider this: A user needs to be logged in to post in a forum. Do you expect me to tell my users, "Please wait, there are the 100 users are ahead of you?"

    User issues aside, it's also unclear to me if I'm going to be losing functionality in terms of Workflow and Permissions in 4.0 Standard vs. 3.7 Standard. If so, this still means I would need the Professional edition, which means a new license just increased 10 fold.

    When you increase the price of something 22 times over what it used to be, your customers begin looking for alternatives. You'd just better hope they don't find something suitable for much less than $20,000.

    Jeff
  31. Jean Erasmus Nov 14, 2010
    Hi There,

    I've always been happy with using sitefinity, good product at a good price. However I find the new pricing model peculiar.

    1.    For professional, why limit the concurant users, at that price the concurant users should be unlimmited.
    2.    Why would the standard edition not support load balanced environments if it is based on asp.net technology.

    Sitefinity is a great product, and I would continue to support it in future.

    Regards,
    Jean Erasmus
  32. Martin Kirov Nov 15, 2010
    Hi,

    As noted in the previous comments, we are actively listening to all the suggestions made here and are discussing the ones that we consider valid. One such suggestion was to make the Analytics module available in the Standard Edition. This is version 1 of the Sitefinity Analytics Module and for now we are making all reports available in your Google Analytics account part of the Sitefinity administration area for convenience and so that you can apply permissions on individual reports(something you cannot do in GA). In the next versions of the Analytics module we plan to extend these reports with system information from Sitefinity to provide advanced reports that tie content editor activities and changes in the system(new content, new pages, etc.) with marketing results.

    So we decided to make the current version of the Analytics module available in the Standard Edition to allow small and mid-sized business to conveniently track the activities on their websites within Sitefinity. For all organizations which need more advanced metrics, we plan to include future enhancements in this module in the Professional Edition.

    Martin Kirov
  33. Andrei Nov 15, 2010
    Martin,

    You are ignoring the question about the Network Load Balancing. Is there no hope at all for the Standard version to get Network Load Balancing or are you just thinking for now? Contracts are hanging in the air because of that and it would be very helpful if you could advise us the degree of flexibility there is with regards to this feature. Maybe you could restrict the Web Farm size to just 2 servers for the Standard version.

    Many thanks,
    Andrei
  34. Hagen K Nov 15, 2010
    It appears, I have been fooled!

    When I bought the Sitefinity Standard license in August this year, the Standard license was the comprehensive license. Until the "Sitefinity 4.0 Release Candidate" webinar on the 11th November 2010, there was no mentioning that certain features advertised will not be available within the Standard license. Til then Sitefinity Standard license was the 'maximum' to have. This license entitled for all Sitefinity features without having them limited. You made me believe that all those old and new features are available to Standard license owners since this was the 'maximum' version available. There was no product road map associating features with licenses. All I knew was that the Standard License price will increase and the Community License will have restrictions.

    I'm not interested in a cut down version of Sitefinity at all. When I bought the Sitefinity license, I was looking for a Web Content Management which I could use for my blog about controversial political topics. Those discussions can spawn several threads which I may need to delegate to someone else to author them. It might well be possible that I never would need more than Sitefinity Community, but I bought the Standard license to cater for potential grow.

    As you can see, with your new license model I cannot realize my project and therefore would never have bought Sitefinity Standard in the first place, since I cannot make my project future prove with the money available.

    Telerik, you will have to deliver what you have promised!
    I'm not a lawyer but I believe that this procedure is not lawsuit prove.
  35. MB Nov 15, 2010

    I’m a fan of Sitefinity and place a good deal of trust in Telerik.

     

    I have no problem with Telerik’s pricing structure – it’s their product and their business.

     

    I can accept the increase in price of the Standard edition, from $899 to $1999, as there is an offsetting option of the SB version at $499, and I can choose according to the customer's needs and budegt.

     

    However, where I DO have a problem is with the limited permissions on both the SB and Standard versions.

     

    Lack of granular security on all content items has long been a sore point for V3.x and cause me some heart-burn in the past.

     

    I have personally persevered with Sitefinity, on the long standing “promise” of better security in V4.

     

    Now... I have to pony-up with $7K to get full security for my sites ??

     

    Security on all content should be a basic requirement of any CMS, and I firmly believe that both the SB and Standard editions should have this.

     

    By all means leave out more advanced features, applications, etc etc, and tailor the mix as you see fit, but please don’t compromise customer trust by skimping on security of a commercial product.

  36. Jacques Nov 16, 2010
    Telerik Decision makers, we are resellers of the Sitefinity product, we actively promote the product to our customers due to its great quality and fair pricing.

    As can be seen by the majority of the comments above your customers are not happy.

    There are NO new features listed that warrant that kind of price increase. In fact in most cases we're losing features.

    We've just raised these new pricing options to a committee of decision makers and it took only 5 minutes for the vote to come in as an absolute "NO - find another CMS". We're resellers, we're the ones who can tell you whether or not customers are going to respond well to your new pricing model and the answer is absolutely NO.

    No amount of explanations or "VALUE" proposition arguments is taking away from the fact that for essentially the same product it's now going to cost a massive amount more than it did in the past. we're not talking 15% increase or even 20% increase we're talking potentially thousands of percent increase in price.

    In the current economic climate it astounds me that this pricing model was tabled in the first place and remained on the table in the second place. That not one of the Telerik executives had the foresight to state the obvious "There is no way that we at Telerik can justify these kinds of increases".

    Your executive team would do well to familiarize themselves with the old tale about the goose and the golden egg... you've just ripped the goose open and if some serious rethinking is not done very quickly your golden eggs will soon start to run out.

    You have established a trusting customer base loyal to your products and services, but this action abuses such trust to the highest degree. You would have done yourselves a great favor by truly listening to your customers first.



     
  37. Anina Nov 16, 2010
    This is insane!!!!!!!!

    This kind of change should rather be introduced over time. There's nothing in version 4 that warrants the big change in price.

    Telerik should have Worked towards different editions and slowly changed the prices whilst introducing professional or enterprise feature sets that is of actual value, not take away features from companies who have already invested in a feature set that was already available in a lower edition.

    Our one customer has three licenses for three different domains all three of which run on an network load balancing cluster. This would have cost them $2697.00, but now it will cost $24,000.00.
    Strange considering the fact that load balancing is a feature of Asp.net so how this feature was removed from the standard edition is beyond me.

    Come on guys, this amounts to a jump in price of about 1000%.

    The only tiny improvement here is the small business edition, but the rest is madness.
  38. Stevo Nov 16, 2010

    I think the pricing is great. $495 for the small business license.  Sure, if my customer needs work flow or load balancing, more user seats etc....then they should pay for this.  Even the $1999 for the first license, then $999 for each additional license for the Standard version I see is still a great value.  Only a handful of our customers need load-balancing and permissions.  This new pricing model fits all categories of customers from the low end to the high end.  All I can say is after being in this business for 15 years with an IT management background, I still see Sitefinity as the #1 CMS.  Here is why.

    The company tag line is "Deliver more than expected" and honestly, they are.  Telerik has some of the brightest minds in the industry, and with all of the bugs / fixes they have done in Silverlight and .NET 4.0, Microsoft should be paying them money.   Their RAD tools are awesome and their support is incredible.   Our customers are very happy with SF 4.0 and the new UI, and I am extremely happy that our developers get superior support when they need it.    If your customer needs analytics/ work flow, load balancing etc... then they should pay for it.  Most of our customers do not require this.    If anything, maybe Sitefinity will sell additional licenses for user seats, content analytics etc… as an ala-cart or up-sell license.    Again all of our current and future customers do not see the pricing as a problem.   They want results and Telerik is delivering these results better than expected.
    If your customer cannot afford Sitefinity, then maybe that is not the right customer to work with.  Show them word press or some open source.   We have been down that road and I can tell you it leads no where after a few years.

     

  39. Michael S. Smith Nov 17, 2010
    Greetings,

    I must say that we are quite disappointed with the possible/potential new licensing model.  We are a small (less than 800 students and less than 100 staff and faculty), private religious institution and we began early last summer to plan on moving our current Web and CMS from being outsourced to our IT department.  In that process we were able to approve the purchase of Sitefinity as it provided us many benefits considering that our two in house developers are .NET developers.

    When purchasing Sitefinity 3.7, we were aware that 4.0 was on the horizon and asside from the lack of the community edition, we saw nothing to indicate a different licensing model, so we assumed those features we become part of the 4.0 when upgrading. Now...

    First, I believe you really should take another look at load balancing.  I think man small businesses now use their website as their front and find load balancing important.  They may not be building a web farm, but just two servers.

    Also, Custom Workflows?  Maybe the standard workflows might work for a small business, but anything from standard on really should shine with the ability of custom workflows and granular permissions instead of just page permissions.

    Bottom line is that we are in a dilema now.  As a small school, there is no way for us to purchase the enterprise edition, the standard edition would now not fit the model we would need, and we would have to go to now convince our cabinet to allow an 800% increase in a product that we were just beginning to use.

    As a small school, we need load balancing, we need the workflows capability as we have faculty/department chairs, a marketing department, and department heads that will all be needing to manage their sections of the website with different workflows for how the information is processed and finally accepted.  We won't have a single department or entity that will make the approvals or have complete ownership of the website.  This also applies to granular permissions.

    Finally, the concurrent license I feel is quite limiting for us.  Because, again, we have at least 3 marketing people who would be logged in almost constantly for the institutions purposes, meanwhile we could have as many as 10 of our faculty and/or staff logging in to make adjustments to their sections or profiles (each faculty member has an online profile so potential students can meet them and gain information about their areas of expertise).

    Maybe, a better model would be to have a Small Business license (which would be the current Standard Model), a Standard or Professional License (which would be the current Professional License with a bump up to 25 concurrent licenses), and to have an Enterprise edition that could be kept the same.  Plus, I think the pricing would need to be remodeled, as I could see paying around $2,000 - $3,000 for the mid tier, but not around $8,000.  Or, make a license model for educational use that has a base price, the features of professional but costs for extra concurrent users above a base of 25 or 50...
  40. Andrei Nov 17, 2010
    Martin,

    Nothing wrong with the pricing, a good product should be priced accordingly. I like Sitefinity very much. $2000 is Ok. 

    But I strongly believe that for $2000 a Web farm limited to two servers would be just perfect. Big companies would have big farms (3+ servers), small companies have 2 cheap ($300 server) servers. Have them in a rack in the garage or the server room serving your (1 to 10 staff) Intranet and/or little website. One server will last you a few years. I don't really see your point about all the big expenditures for multiple servers.

    Proportionally in the world there are much more small businesses by far then big businesses. Lets say a town will have three big businesses and maybe a few hundred small ones (found in garages and stuff). Small businesses start up everyday. You would sell so many Standard versions if you give them this bit of resilience. Every Requirements Spec has the typical "... the system availability must be more than 99.99%...", anyway, I am speaking too much.
  41. Michael S. Smith Nov 17, 2010
    Greetings,

    I must say that we are quite disappointed with the possible/potential new licensing model.  We are a small (less than 800 students and less than 100 staff and faculty), private religious institution and we began early last summer to plan on moving our current Web and CMS from being outsourced to our IT department.  In that process we were able to approve the purchase of Sitefinity as it provided us many benefits considering that our two in house developers are .NET developers.

    When purchasing Sitefinity 3.7, we were aware that 4.0 was on the horizon and asside from the lack of the community edition, we saw nothing to indicate a different licensing model, so we assumed those features we become part of the 4.0 when upgrading. Now...

    First, I believe you really should take another look at load balancing.  I think man small businesses now use their website as their front and find load balancing important.  They may not be building a web farm, but just two servers.

    Also, Custom Workflows?  Maybe the standard workflows might work for a small business, but anything from standard on really should shine with the ability of custom workflows and granular permissions instead of just page permissions.

    Bottom line is that we are in a dilema now.  As a small school, there is no way for us to purchase the enterprise edition, the standard edition would now not fit the model we would need, and we would have to go to now convince our cabinet to allow an 800% increase in a product that we were just beginning to use.

    As a small school, we need load balancing, we need the workflows capability as we have faculty/department chairs, a marketing department, and department heads that will all be needing to manage their sections of the website with different workflows for how the information is processed and finally accepted.  We won't have a single department or entity that will make the approvals or have complete ownership of the website.  This also applies to granular permissions.

    Finally, the concurrent license I feel is quite limiting for us.  Because, again, we have at least 3 marketing people who would be logged in almost constantly for the institutions purposes, meanwhile we could have as many as 10 of our faculty and/or staff logging in to make adjustments to their sections or profiles (each faculty member has an online profile so potential students can meet them and gain information about their areas of expertise).

    Maybe, a better model would be to have a Small Business license (which would be the current Standard Model), a Standard or Professional License (which would be the current Professional License with a bump up to 25 concurrent licenses), and to have an Enterprise edition that could be kept the same.  Plus, I think the pricing would need to be remodeled, as I could see paying around $2,000 - $3,000 for the mid tier, but not around $8,000.  Or, make a license model for educational use that has a base price, the features of professional but costs for extra concurrent users above a base of 25 or 50...
  42. Jean Erasmus Nov 18, 2010
    At $8000 I would expect tools to support the migration from 3.7 to 4.0. I've tried the latest source on the codeplex project and no luck, keep getting errors. If you are going to charge enterprise prices you better have the solid stability and tools to back it up with.
  43. Ben Henderson Nov 18, 2010
    I think the omission of load balancing in the Standard edition is an bad move. Load balancing isn't a luxury, it's a common feature that is essential for any site that cares about reliability, which should be most everyone.

    Mapping our existing licenses, which include load balancing support, to an inferior set of core features is not showing much love for your customers. At the very least, you could have mapped existing customers to Professional. It would have made you appear generous and possibly defused this initial backlash.

    I am looking forward to using the new product. The $7100 difference to regain load balancing will be tough to swallow, however (please don't tack on a red note about limited time upgrade pricing - I'm talking about purchase costs).
  44. Michael Smith Nov 19, 2010
    I guess one way to sum up our complaints is to say that for what we get with 3.x standard moving to 4.x standard seems like paying more for less.  It also is disheartening that the features that were so passionately touted about 4.0 (the workflows being one of them) are not available across the entire 4.0 product.  To me that makes them more of a module or add-on that you purchase instead of just a feature of the product.
  45. Michael Smith Nov 19, 2010
    I guess one way to sum up our complaints is to say that for what we get with 3.x standard moving to 4.x standard seems like paying more for less.  It also is disheartening that the features that were so passionately touted about 4.0 (the workflows being one of them) are not available across the entire 4.0 product.  To me that makes them more of a module or add-on that you purchase instead of just a feature of the product.
  46. Michael Smith Nov 19, 2010
    I guess one way to sum up our complaints is to say that for what we get with 3.x standard moving to 4.x standard seems like paying more for less.  It also is disheartening that the features that were so passionately touted about 4.0 (the workflows being one of them) are not available across the entire 4.0 product.  To me that makes them more of a module or add-on that you purchase instead of just a feature of the product.
  47. Jeff Nov 19, 2010
    We have been a user of your UI Component suites for a number of years now and have been very impressed with both your product in terms of functionality. its price point and your tremendous support.

    We were considering Sitefinity for some upcoming projects, but the bottom line is your new licensing model just does not make sense for what it delivers. All I can say is that we are very disappointed.
  48. Kevin Nov 22, 2010
    I think you've forgotten your customer base Hint: it's resellers. I'm a small business who sells to small businesses. With the flexibility of 3.x pricing, I moved away from Kentico, Umbraco, etc. Being a smaller boutique shop, I just can't sell these prices in this marketplace. I just can't sell these prices because I have to mark up the base cost of Sitefinity to sell the project and actually make money myself.

    Bottom line: Will look elsewhere if you don't change these pricing structures.
  49. J.Hov Nov 24, 2010
    Support for load balanced environment removed from some editions... Why? It's part of Asp.net/IIS already????
  50. J.Hov Nov 24, 2010
    Had my first opportunity to discuss the new license model with a client... they're outraged. "It's not $2000 or $8000 price tag, it's the jump from where it is now and the removal of load balancing from some options". These are customers with three licenses across three load balanced servers.

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