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Multi Lingual Content

43 posts, 0 answered
  1. peter hardy
    peter  hardy avatar
    11 posts
    Registered:
    29 Jul 2005
    02 May 2007
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    Hi guys, I raised this on another post but think it may have been missed.

    ....

    Have installed the updated version and updated the web.config file to support multiple languages. I can create multiple language versions of the meta-data associated with a page but not the actual content that is inside the Generic Content blocks 

    If I create a page in english, then use the drop down list to switch to french, enter french into the content blocks and save it, when I switch back to english its still in french. Am I missing something?

    ...

    To clarify, can anyone enlighten me as to how to enter multiple language content?

    Cheers, Pete
  2. Bob
    Bob avatar
    330 posts
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    02 May 2007
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    Hi Pete,

    Localization is supported for shared content only. Currently, the only way to enter multilingual content is to use Modules / Generic Content section. In the final release you will be able to enter multiple languages in the page editor as well but again this feature will be available only for shared content.

    Best wishes,
    Bob
    the telerik team

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  3. peter hardy
    peter  hardy avatar
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    03 May 2007
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    I see. Thanks for the info and I look forward to the full release. I'd like to see a a couple of small changes in the final version. These are as follows:

    1) For fields that can be made mult-lingual please display the language code next to it (or better still a flag for the appropriate country). Without the user doesn't know what to expect when the save the content.

    2) On the list of languages on the right can you give an indication of which language have content and which do not. It allows users to know which parts they still need to be translate.

    Cheers, Pete
  4. Bob
    Bob avatar
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    04 May 2007
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    Hello Pete,

    This was our original idea but we didn’t have time to finish it. It’s done already though.

    Cheers,
    Bob
    the telerik team

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  5. Ben Alexandra
    Ben Alexandra avatar
    215 posts
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    15 Sep 2012
    16 May 2007
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    Hi,

    Just trying to figure out Multi-Lingual support.  I have a big project that'll be in 2 languages to start, and more moving forward.  I had looked at Sitefinity 2.7 originally and really liked how you handled multi-lingual support.  My understanding of how it worked was as such:

    You set up your languages
    You created new pages and selected which languages those pages should be available for (so some pages might only  be in En, others only in De and the rest in both)
    You selected which language you were editiing and the page came up and you could add items (generic content, images, etc.), then you switched to the other language and the page was blank, and you entered your controls and content for that page.
    You dropped a LanguageSelector onto the template and if someone switched languages and the page existed in both languages, it went to that same page in the other language, if the page didn't exist, it went to the homepage
    If you looked at the sitemap and you were in the En version, you saw all the pages that were available for English, and if you were in the De version you saw those pages.

      It seemed like the perfect way to do it!

      Have you changed your whole approach to multiple languages, or am I missing something?  Also, if you did change, what's the advantage of the new system?

      Also, what do I need to do to create a language selector?

      Thanks!

      Ben
  6. Bob
    Bob avatar
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    17 May 2007
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    Hi Ben,

    We changed the approach. In the new version we do not crate copy of the page for each language. Instead you are able to localize certain parts of the page (currently shared content only) and its metadata. We believe this is better approach as in most cases only text is change and very rarely images and when you need to change styles for example you don’t have to maintain all versions of that page. Besides creating full copy of the page would be identical as if you crate you site structure like this:
    ~/en/home.aspx
    ~/es/home.aspx


    And doing this implicitly will lead to unnecessary code complexity. Of course we are open to any suggestions that may improve out approach.

    Sorry for the inconvenience but we forgot to put the Language Bar control in the Toolbox. Please find the toolbox section in your web.config and add the following line:


    For instructions on how to setup your site to support multiple languages please refer to page 128 in User Manual.

    Pleas let us know if you encounter any problems or have any further questions. 
    <add name="Language Bar" section="Generic Content" type="Telerik.Localization.WebControls.LanguageBar, Telerik.Localization" />

    All the best,
    Bob
    the Telerik team

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  7. Ben Alexandra
    Ben Alexandra avatar
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    17 May 2007
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    Hi Bob,

    Thanks for the reply.  To me the old way was much more logical and intuitive and I think other people will probably have the same concerns that I have.  Here are the issues:
    • - Different Languages may very well have different sitemaps
    •  --> Some pages might not apply to all countries
    •  --> Let's say you're talking about Geography and you want a page for each region, the US might want ~/country/north_east.aspx, ~/country/south_west.aspx, etc. and the German site might want ~/de/country/east_germany.aspx & ~/de/country/west_germany.aspx with different info.
    •  --> So when you go to the sitemap when you're in English, you should see certain pages, and when you go in
    • - The URLs should also, technically, be different, like for the US/English we'd want ~/countries/... and for German we'd want ~/de/lander/...  As you probably know, Google and other search engines take keywords out of the address, so having legible words in the right language would be great.
    •  - Also, as someone mentioned in one of these language posts, imagine having an 80 page website in 2 languages (as we're planning) and each page has various pieces (let's say 4 (generic content, user controls, more generic content, plus a right side-bar with more generic content) of information, having to put that all into shared content (320 items (80x4)) and then build up the pages trying to select from among 320 pieces of shared content.  It would get pretty tricky, I think, and unwieldy.
    • - Also, how do we handle templates, as each language should, technically, have its own template (so you should be able to select a German template and an English template for the same page.  Templates often have contact info, which would be different depending on the country and is also language specific.

    It's possible that if you localized Show on Sitemap, Template, Theme and the generic content per page, not just shared content, it might solve this issue, basically, or get us to a workable solution.  I have to admit I'm kinda freaking out as I've been waiting for this new version for a big client of mine and I'm not sure they'll accept the current solution.  They also can't wait for this to be fixed in 3.1.  Is there any way this can be "fixed" sooner?  Or do you just not agree that it's a problem as is?

    Please let me know so I can figure out how to proceed

    Thanks a lot!

    Ben

    PS Can I skin that language bar?  And can it be added to the template?
  8. Bob
    Bob avatar
    330 posts
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    17 May 2007
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    Ben,

    Don’t wary we will find a solution for you. Most likely you will have to crate separate pages for each language and we will modify the SiteMap data provider to show pages for the current language only. I will discus this in details tomorrow.

    The LanguageBar is templated control and it expects a control that derives from System.Web.WebControls.ListControl with ID “languageList” in its layout template. We also provide LanguageList control that can be used as list control for LanguageBar.
    Here is an example:

    <sfLoc:LanguageBar CssClass="setIn" ID="languageBar" PostBack="True" runat="server">  
        <LayoutTemplate> 
            <sfLoc:LanguageList ID="languageList" runat="server" CssClass="setIn">  
                <ItemTemplate> 
                    <asp:HyperLink ID="listItem" CssClass="emptyLang" runat="server"></asp:HyperLink> 
                </ItemTemplate> 
                <CurrentItemTemplate> 
                    <asp:Label ID="listItem" CssClass="currentLang"  runat="server"></asp:Label> 
                </CurrentItemTemplate> 
                <SelectedItemTemplate> 
                    <asp:HyperLink ID="listItem" CssClass="filledLang" runat="server"></asp:HyperLink> 
                </SelectedItemTemplate> 
            </sfLoc:LanguageList> 
        </LayoutTemplate> 
    </sfLoc:LanguageBar> 


    Sincerely yours,
    Bob
    the Telerik team

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  9. Ben Alexandra
    Ben Alexandra avatar
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    17 May 2007
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    Hi Bob,

    Thanks for the reassurance.  Any idea when you could provide the functionality to create each page per language?  Would it just be localizing the Show On Sitemap?  Would it be a hotfix to 3.0?

    I'm still unclear on adding the control to the Template, vs just adding it to the page (on the fly).  Also, I'd like to use (if possible) a RadComboBox (instead of just a ListControl).  Is that possible?  Also, where would I find documentation for this kind of thing?  Like can I add a userControl to the template, but have the variables be set on the fly per page?  Or do I have to always drag it onto every page?  Where can I read about this stuff?

    Thanks for your help!

    Ben
  10. Bob
    Bob avatar
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    18 May 2007
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    Hi Ben,

    When this feature will be ready greatly depends on the implementation we choose. We will need your and others opinion on this subject.

    Localizing the “Show in navigation” property is not that simple as we have to consider versioning and workflow as well as any combination these options (language, version and workflow).

    You said:
    Different Languages may very well have different sitemaps
    Some pages might not apply to all countries
    The URLs should also, technically, be different, like for the US/English we'd want ~/countries/... and for German we'd want ~/de/lander/...

    Does that mean that each language should have completely impendent structure (sitemap) as if they ware different sites or each page should have corresponding page in each language?
    What should be the behavior when the language is changed while browsing?
    If languages use independent structures, should the user be redirected to the home page of the selected language when it is changed?
    If pages have language versions (unified structure) what should happen when a user changes the language for a page and there is no entry for that language?

    I would appreciate everyone’s involvement in this subject.

    Thanks,
    Bob
    the Telerik team

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  11. Ben Alexandra
    Ben Alexandra avatar
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    18 May 2007
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    Hi Bob,

    >>Does that mean that each language should have completely impendent structure (sitemap) as if they ware different sites or each page should have corresponding page in each language?
     
    The latter for sure!  The sitemaps will likely be over 90% the same, but certain pages might no apply to all languages, so you need to be able to not have them apply. 

    >>What should be the behavior when the language is changed while browsing?

    If the page exists in the newly selected language, just go to the new language's version, otherwise either go up the tree to the first parent with the new language (preferred) or go to the homepage.  This could (eventually) be an option in the web.config

    Does that make sense?  I'll reiterate the whole process, as I see it should work:

     - You create a new page and select which languages that pages should be available for (so some pages might only  be in En, others only in De and the rest in both)

     - When editing the page, you first select the language you want to edit for (say English) and you then have a blank slate.  You select the English template, name, meta tags, url (not as important), etc, and then add any content to the page.  You then switch languages and have a blank slate.  Maybe there's a Copy From option where you can import the English version of things and make changes (next version?), or maybe you just start from scratch and create the (let's say German) page, including selecting a German template and making all the content what you want (not tied to the English version, if you don't want).

     - When someone is on the German version, all the menus show the pages available for German, and when in English, the sitemap changes slightly based on which pages are in the English sitemap.  If someone changes languages, well, see my suggestion earlier in this post.

    Hope that all seems logical and like a good solution.  I understand that the backend implementation might be tough, but I'm pretty sure that's how it worked in 2.7 (though I never fully used it) and it seems (to me, at least) like the best way of doing it.  Hopefully you will be able to implement this for me!

    Thanks so much

    Ben
  12. Mat
    Mat avatar
    23 posts
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    05 Nov 2006
    21 May 2007
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    Hi,

    I agree with Ben’s comments and suggestions about your approach for multilingual content.

    In my opinion your approach of the multilingual support is not logical.
    A shared content is important and a good feature, but it has nothing to do with multilingual content. A content can have more than one language and can be shared too.

    Our pending project has about 400 pages per language. We created two different templates with at least three generic content fields. As Ben already calculated and explained it would be unmanageable. It would generate at least 800 shared generic content.

    Now, how should we proceed? You mentioned earlier we should create two independent navigations (sitemaps), but how can I do that? Is there any help or an example available?

    Or at least, can we start to fill the content with one language? And will it still work with a coming release?

    Thanks,

    Mat
  13. Bob
    Bob avatar
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    21 May 2007
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    Hello Mat,

    If you want to go for the independent navigation approach you need to create a root (group page) for each language. Something like this:
    ~/English/Home.aspx
    ~/English/Page1.aspx
    ~/English/Page2.aspx


    ~/Spanish/Home.aspx
    ~/Spanish /Page1.aspx
    ~/Spanish /Page2.aspx


    Then you need to wrap a navigation control in a user control and handle the population in the code behind to populate the nodes for the current language only.

    If you want to use this approach, I will send you example code.

    We decided to simplify this in the upcoming Service Pack next month. You will be able to achieve the same behavior without the need to have a root page for each language and maintain separate sitemaps. This will be handled implicitly. But you will be able to add additional URLs independent for each language version.

    You can start creating pages for one language now and add the other languages after you upgrade to SP1.

    Note that if you choose the first approach, there will be no way to convert it to the second when it is available.

    Greetings,
    Bob
    the Telerik team

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  14. Ben Alexandra
    Ben Alexandra avatar
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    21 May 2007
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    Hi Bob,

    Can you please clarify and also tell us a bit more about the new way you'l handle it?  It sounds like the sitemap portion is as I requested, is that right?  if so, that'd be great. 

    Now comes the second part, which is content.& templates.  Sounds like Mat is in the same boat as me in terms of templates & page content.  Here's my ideal way of handling it (as taken from an earlier post):  "When editing the page, you first select the language you want to edit for (say English) and you then have a blank slate.  You select the English template, name, meta tags, url (not as important), etc, and then add any content to the page.  You then switch languages and have a blank slate.  Maybe there's a Copy From option where you can import the English version of things and make changes (next version?), or maybe you just start from scratch and create the (let's say German) page, including selecting a German template and making all the content what you want (not tied to the English version, if you don't want)."

    I also laid out the way i'd love to see switching languages handled, but honestly that's far less important than a unified sitemap and unique content/templates.

    One more thing.  Please clarify if it's safe to build up a site in just one language now, then in a month or so to add the second language.  Any suggestions as to  best practices to implement now so as to avoid extra work when we implement additional languages?

    Thanks!  Looking forward to your response.

    Ben
  15. Bob
    Bob avatar
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    22 May 2007
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    Hello Ben Alexandra,

    Yes, everything will work as you described it.
    Yes, you are safe to build a site with one language and add more languages later.

    Greetings,
    Bob
    the Telerik team

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  16. Mat
    Mat avatar
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    22 May 2007
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    Hi Bob,

    Thanks for your response. I’ll go with the second approach and start with one language. Just a few questions left.

    1. Do I have to configure the localization settings in the web.config file as described in the user manual or can I ignore that configuration?

    2. When can we expect the service pack 1, at the beginning, mid or end of June?

    3. Are you planning to make the back-end localizable too, or even integrate other languages?
    If yes, when would it be realized?

    Greetings,
    Mat
  17. Bob
    Bob avatar
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    23 May 2007
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    Hi Mat,

    You can ignore the configuration.

    Service pack is expected to be out in the second half of Jun.

    What do you mean by back-end? If you are talking about the administration side, we can give you the resource files if you want to translate them.

    We plan to provide language packs in the future but this is not a priority for the time being.

    Regards,
    Bob
    the Telerik team

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  18. Mat
    Mat avatar
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    23 May 2007
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    Hello Bob,

    Thank you for the reply.

    Yes, I meant the administration side. I would be happy to get the resource files.

    Thanks a lot,
    Mat

  19. viscious
    viscious avatar
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    30 May 2007
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    Hello.  I am currently evaluating Sitefinity for use in an upcoming project.  The project will have close to 300 content pages, and the most important factor is multi language support.

    I am a bit confused on the way that it is currently implemented, and I am also a bit confused on how it is going to be changed.  

    If i understand this correctly, the sp1 release will work like this:

    Admin side
    --create a new page and you start with a blank slate, select a language for this page.  Select a template, and enter your content.
    --Switch to the second language and then the you have a new blank slate.  You select your template and add your content in this second language.

    End User side
    --I browse to mysite.com and i am presented with a home page.
    --How do I select which language i want to see the site in?
    --Once I select my language, does the menu navigation show all of the pages in the site, or only the pages available in the language I selected?
    --What if I speak multiple languages?   I would prefer to see a certain page in my prefered language, but maybe its only available in another language, is there a way for me to know this, so that I can switch to that language?

    Any help clearing this up and how its all going to work would be appreciated.
  20. Bob
    Bob avatar
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    04 Jun 2007
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    Hi Mat,

    Pages will support two localization modes.
    1. (current approach) Single page with localizable properties (Page Label, Title, Key Words and Description). The localization of the content on the page is handled by controls such as Generic Content or Localize server controls.  Therefore, the sitemap will be the same for all languages but page names will be in the currently selected language as long as there is an entry for the menu label for that language. If there isn't, the page name will use the default or the first entered language.

     Localization of server controls depends on their implementation. Generic Content control uses the same concept as resource files.

    1. (new approach) Just as you described, each page will have independent slate for each language. When adding a new language version of a page, you will have the option to either copy from another language or create a blank slate.  

    There is a Language Bar control that you can use on the public side to allow users to switch between languages (Telerik.Localization.WebControls.LanguageBar, Telerik.Localization).

     You will be able to configure whether you want the navigation (sitemap) to show all pages or only those available for the current language.

    I hope this helps. Don’t hesitate to ask if you have any further questions.

    Greetings,
    Bob
    the Telerik team

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  21. px
    px avatar
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    13 Jun 2007
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    When creating a new page will all the fields that are not multi language (phone numbers etc) should be carried over. Is that currently the plan?

    Cheers,

    Peter
  22. Bob
    Bob avatar
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    No, Peter. A page cannot be aware of any fields. This should be the responsibility of the control that implements these fields. A language version of a page is simply another instance and it displays whatever you put in it.

    Examples of localizable controls are PostsList from Blogs, NewsList and SingleNews controls. For these controls you can specify which fields should be localizable and which not. Also, you can add custom fields for these controls.

    Regards,
    Bob
    the Telerik team

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  23. px
    px avatar
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    13 Jun 2007
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    Hi Bob,

    Thanks for the clarification. Sitefinity module support seems really good but its page and page properties support is essentially missing. Sort that out and this would be a really really good cms.

    As it stands it seems awkward and we can't adopt it beause our clients won't accept it. I know the price point is very different but please download a copy of EpiServer to see a solid page / page properties implementation. Its difficult to express it cleary here.

    Cheers,

    Pete
  24. Ben Alexandra
    Ben Alexandra avatar
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    14 Jun 2007
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    Hi,

    Just went live with my first SF site ( http://usa.weleda.com )and it's been solid.  Developing  for Sitefinity has been great and easy!!!  Thanks guys.

    Sounds like the way you're going to handle multiple languages is going to be great.  Is it still scheduled for service pack 1? and if so, when is SP1 scheduled to be released?  I know you had said mid-end of June at one point.  Is that still the case?  I have a client who is ready to launch their site, but since there's no good multi-lingual support yet, they can't.

    Thanks for everything.

    Ben
  25. Bob
    Bob avatar
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    15 Jun 2007
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    Hi Ben,

    Congratulations for the launch. The site looks really nice and slick.

    The site is working just fine but you can still optimize for better performance. I just examined a bit with HttpWatch and I noticed compiled resources are not cached by the browser. Did you forget to set <compilation debug="false">. Also you can set content expiration in the HTTP Header settings in IIS to reasonably long period. This way you will lower the server round trips.

    The SP1 is scheduled for next Thursday and we are doing our best to include multilingual support for pages.

    Greetings,
    Bob
    the Telerik team

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  26. Ben Alexandra
    Ben Alexandra avatar
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    15 Jun 2007
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    Thanks, Bob,

    I've now set debug=false and the set the expiration time to 2 hours.  Are there other things I can do to speed it up?  Does the caching work well yet.?  Any improvements in SP1?

    Thanks

    Ben
  27. Bob
    Bob avatar
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    18 Jun 2007
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    Hi Ben,

    I assume you are asking about page caching on the server. Yes, it’s working well and you should use it if the site is busy and CPU time is critical for both web and database servers.

    The RC1 contains mostly bug fixes and documentation improvements. We will provide a complete list of changes.

    All the best,
    Bob
    the Telerik team

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  28. Ben Alexandra
    Ben Alexandra avatar
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    18 Jun 2007
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    Hi Bob,


    Thanks.  Is there a bit field in the db I can go and change for caching?  I'd rather not go through each page to enable it. If so, which table/field would I change?

    Thanks

    Ben
  29. Bob
    Bob avatar
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    19 Jun 2007
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    Hi Ben,

    Backup your database and execute the following statement:

    UPDATE sf_CmsPage SET RequireCaching = 1

    Let me know if you encounter any problems.

    Regards,
    Bob
    the Telerik team

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  30. viscious
    viscious avatar
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    27 Jun 2007
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    Hi guys.  Congratulations on getting the service pack out.

    After i upgraded to sp1, I tried to add a page in a second language.  I'm not sure that I am doing it correctly though, because it doesnt seem to be working.  Whenever I edit the content in one language, the content changes for all the other languages as well.  Also, it seems that whenever I add a control to a page in one language, that control gets added to all the other languages (this is probably a good thing, but based on the previous posts in this thread, i was thinking that it would not be this way).


    It does appear that the meta fields are being localized though.

    On a side note,  I tried to use the shared content aproach to multi lingual content.   From the administration side, I am able to edit the different language versions of the shared content, but whenever I view the content on a page, and use the language bar to switch languages, the english version shows on both.
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