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Sitefinity 4.0 Pricing WAY TOO HIGH

70 posts, 0 answered
  1. MB
    MB avatar
    302 posts
    09 Jan 2005
    28 Mar 2012
    Link to this post

    The (perhaps poor) car analogy was simply to make that point that no amount of 'feel the quality' will work, if you don't have the budget.

    Telerik's inflexible pricing simply puts it out of the market, except where the requirements happen to exactly match the edition specs. Of course, there are cheaper CMS and Telerik is losing sales to these products, when a more flexible pricing policy could allow it to be more competitive. I know that I have been forced to use alternatives to provide solutions.

    Anyone who has studied Marketing knows the 4-Ps

    - Product
    - Price
    - Promotion
    - Placement

    Telerik have a good product, but they have a bad pricing policy - and Marketing 101 says that is a sales killer.
  2. Markus
    Markus avatar
    2763 posts
    25 Nov 2005
    29 Mar 2012
    Link to this post

    You know I love the car analogy.
    p.s. Markus, I always love your car analogies. However consider this, with SF 4 we weren't sold a Mercedes, we were sold a broken down car with only 3 wheels and a Mercedes body carefully placed on top, made to look like a nice Mercedes until you touched it. Oh and they threw in a bent bike rack and broken trailer that we didn't want in the first place.

    You might be right with the above. But this is spoken from a mechanics point of view. If you think about the every day driver (end user) it simply a car thats easy to drive.
    Other Hyudai CMS might work perfect under the hood but I found out that my drivers (customers) have a hard time just getting into the car. They are not used to the manual gear shift and simply moving around in the car is so complicated that they give up soon.

    So I stick with SF because time after time I realize that after just 2 hours of driving lessons they can take the car to the city :-)

    I don't know to much about marketing but I assume the 4P will add up to a sum. And if Telerik feels the the sum is right for them, who are we to tell them how their Ps should look like. Just waiting for some thread tellin telerik where to put banner adds on the web ;-)

    I also had to bite the bullet of higher prices for my small business clients. But I am more then willing to pay the price if the product is right.

    I am rather missing small widget then big features. I could have done without forum but needed other stuff more for my drivers. -> no need for towing boats but cup holder would be nice.

    Bottom line (after my name, since it has to be on the bottom)

    I love Sitefinitys usability. Support still rocks. And if Telerik focuses on bugs, speed and small improvements like breadcrumb widget I am more then convinced that I made the right choice sticking with SF.

  3. MB
    MB avatar
    302 posts
    09 Jan 2005
    29 Mar 2012
    Link to this post

    "if Telerik feels the the sum is right for them, who are we to tell them how their Ps should look like"

    Yes, that is absolutely correct, and I'm not disputing it for a second - if they believe it's working, then more power to them.

    My comments are limited strictly to the context of this thread, and people (including my own customers) stating that they are not choosing Sitefinity because of the pricing - in that context, the pricing policy is self-evidently an issue.

    However, it's entirely Telerik's perogative to decide if that market sector is of value to them and/or how to best market their product.

    PPPP basically says that if you do the other 3 well enough, then Price has less impact - Apple is built on this approach.
  4. Houstin
    Houstin avatar
    1 posts
    01 May 2016
    02 May in reply to Ben Alexandra
    Link to this post

    I also noticed right away and up front that Sitefinity was so ashamed of their prices that they NEVER publish any of that on their website. Big mystery, Why?  You are coming across like a used car salesman who wants you to hand him the keys to your car while you take him for a test ride. Only to come back and have them tell you that they sold your car during the 30 minutes of looking at their possible sale.

    This website smelled like a rat nest from the very opening. Maybe I hsave lived 76 years to long?

    I learned more from this psudo review that I did on all of the Sitefinity pages.

    No Thanks I will pass and delete from my system. Just thought you should know.



  5. Boyan Barnev
    Boyan Barnev avatar
    1429 posts
    14 Oct 2016
    05 May
    Link to this post
    Hello Houstin,

    Thank you for sharing your feedback. I'm really sorry to hear about your experience, and just wanted to check back with you and see if I can address some of your points.

    You're correct in noticing that we don't publish our prices on the website. I don't think it's such an uncommon practice, nor something to be ashamed of. I think it's a business decision, which does not limit in any ways the customer's ability to get a price quote. Actually requesting a quote means a lot to us, and we want to make sure you'll get the proper attitude and advise from us for the interest you've shown in our company's products - usually a process that involves more than providing just the numbers.
    I agree with you that having the ability to know a product's price before trialing it (or vice versa) is very important. Please correct me if I'm wrong here but I believe the journey on the website does not explicitly restrict to either of these options preceding the other - you can easily request a quote and do a trial in the order of your preference, and in both actions we want to make sure you get the best experience to make your objective decision.

    I respect your opinion about the website - after all despite that we were never known as one-size-fits-all type of company, and we always try to address our customers's specific needs through our products and marketing assets, at the end of the day the UX we offer is judged against everyone's personal preference. I'll be glad to provide any specific information you are interested in about the Sitefinity product, which you weren't able to find on the website - this would also help us find out how we can improve our customer's experience, and I want to thank you in advance for giving us this opportunity.

    Boyan Barnev
    Do you want to have your say in the Sitefinity development roadmap? Do you want to know when a feature you requested is added or when a bug fixed? Explore the Telerik Sitefinity CMS Ideas&Feedback Portal and vote to affect the priority of the items
  6. Dave
    Dave avatar
    29 posts
    27 Aug 2010
    06 May
    Link to this post

    I think Ben's opinion is a little extreme but he does have a point. I'm a developer who frequently downloads trial products and tools and recommends them to my company.  That's what I did 5 years ago with Sitefinity. When a company does not publish their price I find it highly annoying. When I don't see a price I move on and find a similar product that does include prices.  I do get the same "used car lot" feeling so I certainly understand Ben's position.  

    What I find worse than not including prices is that you guys launched a free (Community Edition) and a low cost (Business Edition) edition. Only to discontinue those versions later on. You might not like to hear this but that is the ultimate bait and switch tactic.  At least with a used car lot you can walk away when that happens. It's not so easy after you built your application with Sitefinity and now you have to spend an additional $10,000 or so every year to keep using it.

  7. TonyG
    TonyG avatar
    3 posts
    18 Feb 2006
    07 May
    Link to this post

    I received a couple emails to notify me of activity in this discussion. I completely forgot about it. The comments from 6 years ago still apply today. I love Telerik but never once seriously considered Sitefinity for any client requests. In 2010 I was working with Drupal. Since then I've moved on with WordPress, and the phenomenal CMS that it's become.

    With the entire core and perpetual updates all free, and a thriving third-party market of plugin and theme developers, the WordPress platform has come to dominate the CMS industry. Why didn't Telerik adopt that model? Why didn't we get an opportunity to participate in an ecosystem like that when it seemed so obvious that the Sitefinity business model doomed this fine product into obscurity? I'm guessing the CFO and team at Telerik/Progress figured $100 (for a component) @ 10,000 (units) is equal to 100 units @ $10,000 - so why bother with dealing with high volume, low-ticket offering? Well, if those ratios are accurate, that's true. But if you look at the actual numbers for WordPress, the CMS market is exponentially larger than that - and Telerik simply blew it by not providing a platform that we can put forward in that ecosystem. (https://managewp.com/statistics-about-wordpress-usage)

    Again, I completely forgot about Sitefinity given the situation here. That's now 6 years during which I have only recommended this product twice, when I have recommended and implemented countless others (including the Telerik Platform). What does it mean for Telerik/Progress revenue if even the people enamored with the brand completely forget about this offering? Speaking of the Platform, with Telerik experience with Cordova and Xamarin, I'm hoping they have a taste of the profitability associated with working with bigger names - with embracing global trends rather than hunkering down in their own little island and expecting others to pay the price to visit.

    I understand that the Sitefinity model, which I would phrase as follows: "Provide a high quality product at a business-class price, that eliminates the common burdens of FOSS, including independent developers who lose interest in critical components, and random security flaws and inconsistencies associated with components from a number of random developers." That’s a fine model, one which is embraced by IBM for AIX and RedHat for Linux. But the questions which follow include: Is there really that much Value associated with the price? Can Telerik quantify and compare that model for an average business site, with the amount of time=money spent on freeware to get roughly equivalent functionality? I don't see that. I don't see a Value Model for Sitefinity to compare with what we're getting in the FOSS world (as poor as it can be at times). I put the blame for that squarely in the lap of Telerik/Sitefinity Marketing.

    Or perhaps to summarize all of that, a price can only be Way Too High if we have something to compare against. We are looking at pure numbers and everyone measures Value differently. Sitefinity pricing wouldn't be High if we were convinced that the actual ultimate cost was Higher for solutions like Drupal and WordPress. This is purely about marketing and has nothing to do with the technical prowess of the platform.

    The game isn't over. There are still opportunities for Sitefinity to do better. But given the competition it's much harder to break out of the box now than before.

    Ahem, thanks for your time.

  8. Chanan Zass
    Chanan Zass avatar
    123 posts
    21 Aug 2012
    07 May in reply to TonyG
    Link to this post
    I think the guys at Sitefinity decided not to go on competing with the free PHP-MySQL crowd any longer. They chose to compete with high-end products offered by IBM (the former WebSphere platform) and Oracle, for example. It's a limited market, but I think overall it produces less headache and requires less support personnel. It was a legitimate change of policy, but for us who helped launch it many years ago was pretty irritating.
  9. Dave
    Dave avatar
    29 posts
    27 Aug 2010
    10 May in reply to Chanan Zass
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    @Chanan - The question was directed to Telerik. You do not work for Telerik. Unless you have an answer that resolves a specific problem please do not speak for them. I really want to hear what Telerik has to say.
  10. thelyrist
    thelyrist avatar
    16 posts
    18 May 2007
    10 May
    Link to this post

    Why are we still reviving a Sitefinity 4.0 pricing thread?  I was told by Telerik that  SMB was no longer its intended market. I was the one who had to break the news to my clients (SMB and NGOs) that the CMS I recommended had increased the price so dramatically that it was no longer a good fit for them.

    It was a tough decision, but I had to move my clients to WordPress.  I personally love Umbraco, but my clients prefer WordPress for its ease of use (visual composer sucks, but the clients love it).  I personally hate coding in PHP as C# is so much more elegant, but WordPress allows one to set up a SMB site quickly and easily with lots of free plug-ins and themes support. There are not a lot money to be made building SMB websites anymore, but I'd gladly build them for cheap and make (very little) money through support and hosting instead.

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