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Sitefinity 4.0 RC

183 posts, 0 answered
  1. Chanan Zass
    Chanan Zass avatar
    123 posts
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    21 Aug 2012
    13 Nov 2010
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    Only few things to add at this point.
    But just to clarify, here are two cases -- two 3.7 licenses we bought and are currently developing:
    One is for a multi-national corporation with about 10 subdomains (separate installations), built for dozens of editors in different countries. Budget has been agreed upon months ago. This site will stay as 3.7. We can't introduce limits on concurrent users and require a budget increase.

    The second client is a non-profit organization (multi-lingual) where physicians are contribuiting editors. This will stay as 3.7 as well for the exact same reasons.

    Problem, of course, is the fact that we've promised to both the extra perks of SF 4.0.
    It is easy to say that a client can live with a limited number of concurrent users. But go and explain to a client that he should live with ANY limits at all.
    If anything, I'd remove all limitations and cut down on support. The same-day response on the forums is way too generous, and in most cases a waste (for you) -- because people (us included) get used to skipping the documentation and posting a question.

    Enough said.


  2. Shawn Davis
    Shawn Davis avatar
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    13 Nov 2010
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    I feel strongly as well that there should be a tier of pricing that is lower because it only comes with forum support - at least through standard.  And as John S. said you need to provide a standard module (or build the functionality into the controls) to allow certain users to add/edit blogs/news/generic content etc. so they don't have to access the CMS back-end.  Based upon these new concurrent user limitations this seems like an absolute necessity, not something to be left to be built by the customer.


  3. Gabe Sumner
    Gabe Sumner avatar
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    14 Nov 2010
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    Chanan:  One is for a multi-national corporation with about 10 subdomains (separate installations), built for dozens of editors in different countries.  Budget has been agreed upon months ago.

    A web site of this scale has demanding needs.  Towards this end, the new pricing feels appropriate.  However, I understand the challenge of a pre-planned budget.  There are discounts & options available.  I would recommend that you describe your circumstances to sales@sitefinity.com.

    Chanan:  If anything, I'd remove all limitations and cut down on support. The same-day response on the forums is way too generous, and in most cases a waste (for you) 

    Speaking as the guy who monitors Twitter and the various other flavors of social networks, I know what happens to unaddressed support issues (they become public rants).  Telerik has always been known for our support and this is something we want to continue.  This ultimately aligns with our vision for the company.  

    Shawn:  And as John S. said you need to provide a standard module (or build the functionality into the controls) to allow certain users to add/edit blogs/news/generic content etc. so they don't have to access the CMS back-end.  Based upon these new concurrent user limitations this seems like an absolute necessity, not something to be left to be built by the customer.

    I'm not sure I see the advantage of creating features that help everyone circumvent our pricing.  Ultimately, it undermines the product and threatens Sitefinity's future.

    --

    I should probably return the original definitions for these product editions:

    Small Business Edition - For small business and start-up websites as well as brochure-type and microsites.  

    Standard - For growing online businesses, which need interactive, full-featured websites. 

    Professional - For comprehensive websites and portals of large organizations.

    Professional Unlimited - For enterprises with large web content and editing needs.

    --

    For each one of these tiers we've done our best to pair the pricing & features to the project requirements.  Each of these tiers involves an increasing amount of cost (to Telerik) to support.  This doesn't simply mean support tickets, it also means product architecture & features.  

    I understand there will always be people who want Professional Unlimited features for the cost of Small Business Edition, but those aren't attractive projects.  This inevitably becomes a race to the bottom and it's not a sustainable business model.

    We're still anxious to hear feedback, and it's possible we have a few of the details incorrect.  (Vassil already mentioned that we would reconsider analytics & granular permissions.)  However, nothing in our research has led us to believe that $2k is an unreasonable investment for a company that places real value on their web site.  

    Gabe Sumner
    Telerik | Sitefinity CMS
  4. Steve
    Steve avatar
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    14 Nov 2010
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    Hey Gabe,
      I think this is what he means....It's not really creating features to circumvent the PRICING per-say...but that a 10 user limit for $8000 license could potentially be a bit low ASSUMING that each new module we create to give users access to in the backend increases backend usage.

      So personally I'm going to push for us to upgrade to unlimited with the discounts while they exists so that doesn't become an issue, but I can totally see why it would be a concern...module developement in 4 is awesome, but if creating one adds more users to the backend it might not always be the way to go.

      I know it'll become an issue with the SBE with only one concurrent user.  Ideally I would want to give the customer the CMS to create their pages, and create other modules to manage publications and other things. 
      One site I have right now allows clients to upload listing sheets for a collection agency.  The collectors then log into the backend to see the items and mark them as complete.  So standard is way overkill for this site from a webSITE needs perspective (low page count, < 1000 items), but the inability to have more than one person doing generic admin tasks is defiantly going to be an issue (for me, in this one instance since they keep the site open in minimized browsers).  The way modules offload a ton of common work from me is a godsend...so I don't want to have to make a separate admin area to get at those tables and do everything the hard way again.

      It would be nice if the Concurrent count only blocked usage to the standard bits like page editing so I can feel free to develop modules for them (dads business...I do it for free...you guys know the drill :)  Even the scenario in which he calls me at work and says "how do I do X", I'll have to tell him to log out before I can go in to see, then he can't follow along.  2 concurrent in the SBE would go a long way to help with that...

    Steve
  5. John S.
    John S. avatar
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    14 Nov 2010
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    Gabe,

    To clarify my post, I didn't say telerik needs to provide an offline editor, it was just asked if it was a possiblity. In no way was I suggesting circumvention of pricing. The comments from Vassil led me to belive there was a different concurrent-type user that you were concerned with.

    All and all I am quite happy with the pricing.

    Regards,
    John


  6. Jason
    Jason avatar
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    14 Nov 2010
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    Steve, I have the same scenario. Did you get an answer on this? I was told 'no', that the Concurrent User count is shared across sub domains.

    If that is incorrect, and each subdomain can have it's own user count, that would be a great solution for my unique way of using Sitefinity for my customers. If you get an answer, Steve, please let me know.

    Thank you
  7. bleutiger
    bleutiger avatar
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    15 Nov 2010
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    I would also like to know if the concurrent user limitation is reset with each subdomain.  If that is the case than it would solve almost every issue with our school district site as well.

    And do we have to have a seperate installation in order to make that work or can that be accomplished with a single installation?

    We would still have to figure out a way arround that limitation for our teacher pages but that could be done with creative solutions I guess.

    What says Telerik?
  8. Jason
    Jason avatar
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    15 Nov 2010
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    Telerik has stated to me in an email from their sales team that the Concurrent users span across ALL sub domains.

    Meaning, if your license allows 5, and you have 10 sub domains, your limit is 5 for all ten, not 5 per sub domain (equaling in effect 50).

    I hope they reconsider this, because for my use, all else is alright with their model. Of course, I'm thinking only of my situations!

    Jason
  9. Chanan Zass
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    15 Nov 2010
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    I fail to see how they can monitor the total number of logged-in users on all separate installations using separate databases.
    Just my 2 1/2 c.
  10. Martin
    Martin avatar
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    15 Nov 2010
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    Hi,

    As Vassil indicated in his replies, we are actively listening to all the suggestions made here and are discussing the ones that we consider valid. One such suggestion was to make the Analytics module available in the Standard Edition. This is version 1 of the Sitefinity Analytics Module and for now we are making all reports available in your Google Analytics account part of the Sitefinity administration area for convenience and so that you can apply permissions on individual reports(something you cannot do in GA). In the next versions of the Analytics module we plan to extend these reports with system information from Sitefinity to provide advanced reports that tie content editor activities and changes in the system(new content, new pages, etc.) with marketing results.

    So we decided to make the current version of the Analytics module available in the Standard Edition to allow small and mid-sized business to conveniently track the activities on their websites within Sitefinity. For all organizations which need more advanced metrics, we plan to include future enhancements in this module in the Professional Edition.

    Martin Kirov
    Telerik
  11. Truman
    Truman avatar
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    15 Nov 2010
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    Granular permissions for Standard, and Analytics for all editions (as mentioned in Vassil's comment) would be a good step. Even if it's basic reporting for SBE, business owners need reporting in front of their face to realize the growing process of their online presence. Otherwise, they will not log into Google Analytics, then their website will just collect dust because they do not understand that people are actually viewing their site. Understand that analytics in the admin is important for all editions if you want people to appreciate their website and upgrade. Why would you EVER NOT want to put "return on investment" in the faces of ANY business owners?? Even if they are a small business.

    Another thing that bugs me is the 1 concurrent users limit for SBE. This is unworkable. Like someone mentioned before, how can we support them if only 1 user is allowed into the system at a time? It also doesn't make sense that you would tell a small business that a website is important for them and a team effort, but then remove any possibility of collaboration between them. 1 concurrent user FOR ANY website goes against the very essence of the web culture. It's like giving them a desktop software... a thing of the past. This is what the 1 concurrent user limit reeks of. Please consider making it 2 at least.

    One last thing I would like voice is regarding old items counting towards your item limit. Ok, small business would not be promoting 1000 live items at a given time, but to make old, expired, out-dated content forever count towards the item count limit is kind of deceptive. The reason is because you are telling them.. "one day you will reach 1,000 and it is inevitable... and you will pay the price". You remove ANY sense of ownership if you do not put some archiving option in there. You can even hard code the age of items counted, such as 3 months worth of items cannot exceed 1,000. If a business does not grow before reaching 1,000 items, you pretty much cripple their site for good until they pay you money. NO SENSE OF OWNERSHIP!

    Also mentioned was perhaps adding an extra language for Community and SBE. That would be icing on the cake, but the above issues are deal breakers for me.
  12. Gabe Sumner
    Gabe Sumner avatar
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    Truman:  You can even hard code the age of items counted, such as 3 months worth of items cannot exceed 1,000. If a business does not grow before reaching 1,000 items, you pretty much cripple their site for good until they pay you money. NO SENSE OF OWNERSHIP!

    The Small Business Edition (SBE) was introduced based on feedback from this thread.  It is intentionally designed to give small businesses with basic needs & no budget an entry path into Sitefinity.  SBE is designed to be outgrown when the web site grows.  The growth you describe above and the need to upgrade is by design.  The business has continued to engage with their web site, which suggests it's a valuable resource.  $2k (actually less because it's an upgrade) is a small investment in an organization's infrastructure. 

    At some level this all boils down to 2 types of businesses:

    1.  Businesses who view $2k as a completely unreasonable investment in their web site
    2.  Businesses who can easily see $2k+ of value in their web site.  

    For #1, the reasons for this might vary.  In some cases, these customers might have very sophisticated needs, but don't place any real value on their web site or CMS.  We're not interested in competing for these customers.  In other cases, they might be small business customers with very basic startup needs.  For them, SBE is a good fit.

    For #2, this is where we see more of our time & effort being spent.  These customers have interesting challenges and we think we have interesting solutions.  

    Gabe Sumner
    Telerik | Sitefinity CMS
  13. Raman
    Raman avatar
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    15 Nov 2010
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    Hi Sitefinity Team

    There is so much of conversation going on related to the 4.0 Pricing.

    There is a 10 times difference between 2K (Standard) and 20K (Enterprise). Earlier, the SF 3.x was offered at 0.8 K only. The clients and customers were used to this pricing. And suddenly there is a drastic change, see the graph. 

    Can you give an example of a software product that follows this principle: From 1K to 2K, to 20K and still remained popular among masses? It looks like the Sitefinity guys are over-confident. I feel that this will have a negative impact on the SF's popularity and market.

    I did a lot of research on the CMS products and finally settled upon SF. The main reason was the pricing and active community. This is a major setback.

    I request you to reconsider this decision and earn on volumes selling thousands of copies rather than to a few hundred.

    With Regards
    Raman
  14. bleutiger
    bleutiger avatar
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    15 Nov 2010
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    Gabe I have to disagree with you.

    You are forgetting about customers who are in a service based business who do place a large value on their website...like my karate school website.  But may still need the flexability to place large amounts of information such as events, tournaments, belt testings, special sales, not to mention, photo galleries of their students performing these various tasks and flyers and documents for my students, and may have only 1, 2 or 3 employees that work for them.  They may need all of these people to have access to edit the site at the same time for various reasons.

    You have also not addressed the needs of a shopping cart that may have 1000's of items that can be very easily maintained by only 1 or 2 people.

    I currently only have about 25 pages but because of the large amounts of information I provide my students I am well over the 1000 item mark on my items so I am being told to upgrade just to be able to add more pictures and events...really?

    You are also assuming that because people may not have enough money left over after paying their rent, utilities and other expenses for the month that they have enough money to drop $2000 at any given time on a cms that they used to be able to get for only $900 or be forced to use a $500 product that now has added limitations on the number of items they can post and the amount of pages they can have on their site.

    By your very words your new model forces people to upgrade.  Does this seem right to force people to upgrade even if they have no need to get the extra features just to "unlock the restrictions" that were not there before in 3.7.

    You are also still forgetting that a business may be willing to invest $2000 in their website but cannot afford to pay the developer to build it out because they spent all their money on the product itself.

    I am really trying to keep an open mind here but I was involved in posting to the threads about the commiunity edition being disolved and as I recall one of the reasons stated for getting rid of it was to make it easier to support a single paid version...now you have 4 paid versions.

    As I have said remove features but do not restrict the use of what is already there.

    I have no need for workflow on my karate school website but I have a huge need for multiple users.  I have no need for multiple languages.  But I have a huge need for not being restricted on the number of items I can place on my site.

    I agree with another poster that I think you should have gone with a modular approach.  Launch a core site at a reasonable increase in price and then allow people to buy other modules to install based on their needs.  Then you really do put the power of building a site into the individual site and developers hands.  If they don't need something they don't have to buy it.

    Quickbooks would be an example of what I am talking about.  They have a core program and then if you want payroll you buy an add on.  If you want a contractor module you buy that.  If you want point of sale knock yourself out. The modules vary in price and rightly so.  Bigger modules should cost more but again it is the choice of the individual consumer not the choice of a group of people that cannot even begin to think of everyones different needs and desires.  However, none of the core features of the software are comprimised or restricted in their use.

    I probably sound very negative and I'll admit I am a bit bitter but only because of the amount of time and effort I have spent selling Sitefinity to clients and to the school district that I work for and also because of the man hours I have spent developing these sites as well as my personal site and now I feel like all of that time has been wasted.

    We have been told to contact sales with our idividual issues but response has been extremely slow.  I'm sure I am not alone in this feeling that I am spinning my wheels right now and have no idea whether I can go forward or have to start from scratch.

    Again I love Sitefinity but I am struggling here.
  15. Gabe Sumner
    Gabe Sumner avatar
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    Raman:  Can you give an example of a software product that follows this principle: From 1K to 2K, to 20K and still remained popular among masses? It looks like the Sitefinity guys are over-confident. I feel that this will have a negative impact on the SF's popularity and market.

    It's not a popularity contest.  Rather, we're looking at cost, revenue and our vision for the product.  For the projects we're targeting $2k is not a barrier to entry.  Furthermore it's a reasonable price for the content management challenges that we're creating solutions for.  You might be correct that $2k will price us out of the market, but there is sizable evidence that suggests otherwise.  Time will tell though.

    Raman:  I request you to reconsider this decision and earn on volumes selling thousands of copies rather than to a few hundred.

    What you're proposing impacts the type of service & product that we're able to offer.  Inside Telerik, there isn't much support for being the Wal-mart of CMS's (sorry if that analogy means nothing to those not in the US) .  Other companies have tried this and struggle, in their own way, to build a sustainable business around this model.  It's not attractive to us though.  Furthermore, it impacts (more than you might imagine) the types of projects that we get to engage with.

    bleutiger: They may need all of these people to have access to edit the site at the same time for various reasons.  You have also not addressed the needs of a shopping cart that may have 1000's of items that can be very easily maintained by only 1 or 2 people.

    We have addressed these scenarios, but perhaps not at the price point these customers desire.  Ultimately we can't be all things to all people.

    bleutiger: You are also still forgetting that a business may be willing to invest $2000 in their website but cannot afford to pay the developer to build it out because they spent all their money on the product itself.

    We're definitely aware that the CMS purchase is part of a larger budget.  However, I don't think we can be held responsible for organizations that lack the budget to build the web site they desire.  

    bleutiger: We have been told to contact sales with our idividual issues but response has been extremely slow.  I'm sure I am not alone in this feeling that I am spinning my wheels right now and have no idea whether I can go forward or have to start from scratch.

    They are slammed right now, as you might imagine.  However, there is plenty of time to take advantage of discounts.  Current customers have lots of options for getting migrated to 4.0.  

    --

    Hopefully I'm not coming across as too dismissive or argumentative, but we've been talking about this internally, externally & with partners for a long time.   

    At this point, I'm reasonably convinced about the direction we're taking.  There might be a few details that are off, but overall the pricing is sound.  Speaking personally, my biggest concern has always been for our current customers.  However, this is why we have a boat load of discounts for all current customers.  (Thousands & thousands & thousands worth of discounts.)  At this point, all current & short term projects have an accessible migration path.  Regarding the future, I'm sure there will be projects for which Sitefinity is no longer a good fit.  However, these projects will be replaced with projects for which Sitefinity is now a better fit.  

    All this being said, we're still watching all of this feedback and open to suggestions.  However, the burden of proof is very high for suggestions that involve gutting this new pricing or making the SBE our best seller.

    Gabe Sumner
    Telerik | Sitefinity CMS
  16. Jaime
    Jaime avatar
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    15 Nov 2010
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    I have three suggestions that would improve this transition for me. I'm not asking for all three suggestions, but one of these three would probably solve my issues completely.

    1. Non-profit or educational licensing: If could go back in time and budget for the professional unlimited, I might have a chance at asking for 10K for the discounted license. I don't think we can afford the yearly 20-30% to keep my subscription active. If I were dealing with a discounted educational list price, then I might be able to plan ahead on the budget and have a decent chance at having an active yearly license. Granted, the only reason I'm looking for the unlimited license is because I need unlimited concurrent users. If you fix my issues with concurrent users then standard or professional would fit my needs.

    2. Double the concurrent users for all licenses: I'm trying to figure out what a magic number of concurrent users would be. I don't think 10 would cut it but 20-30 concurrent users for professional would make professional a perfect fit for me.

    3. Allow people the ability to add concurrent users to their license. If I could buy chunks of concurrent users then this would help. I was on the phone with one of your sales reps and they tried to convince me that 10 concurrent users would go a lot further than I think it would. Okay, lets pretend that I believe you and I launch my new sitefinity site and I realize that 10 concurrent is causing a lot of issues. What do I do then? I either pay up and get the unlimited license or I can revert back to 3.7.
  17. Markus
    Markus avatar
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    16 Nov 2010
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    I think it's absolutely up to Telerik to set the prices. I don't know how many will walk up to Porsche and complain about the price tag.

    Everyone who has ever worked with Telerik know that their support is simply the very best on and off the net. And this is why I think the price is correct for what you get.

    I think the 500 USD price tag for SBE is a very fair price for such a great product. Yet I would have some stuff on my x-mas list as well. But as I tell my kids all the time - you can wish whatever you want but you wont get everything.

    So Vassil (St. Clause) here is my whishlist

    SBE
    - 75 Page or even 100 (or option to buy more: for exammple 2 SBE licenses for 100 Pages)
    - localization included 
      -> Small Business in US no problem. 
      -> Switzerland for example no go for SB in region with 2 languages Extra 1500 USD not possible
    - Standard Google Analyics integration
    - 2 concurrent users
    - 50 % discount for small businesses

    ------------------
    Where I think Telerik thinks wrong

    Only big companies need localization because they opparte world wide and can afford more expensive solution
     - no small business my need two or more langues
     - yes big companies can afford more expensive solution. small business not

    Discount not available for small business
    - Small businesses would be exactly the once that need the discount on second licenses. To a big company whats 20k für a superb CMS system. Nothing. They spend more time for addvertisment in a day.
    - To small businesses an extra 500 USD could mean a lot

    Support
    - As mentioned before. Teleriks support is simply outstanding and from my point of view takes some money on workforce to provide such high leve. So if you would force yourselfs out of the community support you save time

    Big vs. Small
    - SF 3.7 is simply the CMS with the best usability (haven not played with 4.0 to much) So if santa will deliver a SBE with the features on my whishlist I am sure the spread of SF will take of and Telerik will be the Nr. 1 brand for CMS systems. which will lead to bigger business (I would rather sell 5 SBE with 25 incidents, then 1 SE with unlimited incidents). If you make SBE foolproof you wont have to anser 5 questions a year.

    Bottom line

    I think most of us are afraid that we have to leave Sitefinity and Telerik because of the price is to heigh for our customers. And small Web Publishing firms can not afford to have to use 2 content management systems - one for customers without the money and one for those who can afford a solution.

    I am sure that Telerik will suprise us again and again and hope that I can stay with Sitefinty.

    Thanks for listening to your customers. It's not taken for granted by me.

    Markus

    PS: @Gabe
    If santa will grant my wishes I can will defenitly be able to include a SBE in all my projects even if I have to pay it myself to save me time. SBE will be a best seller!
  18. mattc
    mattc avatar
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    16 Nov 2010
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    I think the dust is settling on last week, I think the healthy exchange between both Telerik and us in the community will lead to 4.0 being the success it should be for all concerned, my thoughts here:

    http://blog.matthewcooper.info/2010/11/sitefinity-evolution-of-cms.html

    I'm looking forward to getting my hands on the RC now! Meanwhile back to 3.7 for maybe the last time :)

    M
  19. mattc
    mattc avatar
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    Just had a comment on my blog from Steve who is under the impression that front end users authenticated in Sitefinity DO count towards the concurrent user limit......

    To clarify, if a front end user authenticates via a control in a page and then we use that user name to provide user specific content in a user control on another page, does that count as a concurrent user in terms of licenses?

    Could you confirm this Gabe et al please? Your reply to my earlier post reassured me that they didn't :)

    Matt: I'm still a little worried about concurrent users, the current startup project I am about to start working on will allow front end users to create an account and then fill in several forms (which will be user controls) and store the data against their user ID. From the launch of the site it would be a disaster if we got a mention on a social network (which we will) and we couldn't process all the signups etc, so this is still a concern.
     
    As Steve mentioned, it doesn't sound like these users would be logging into the backend...thus the concurrent user limit is not applicable to them.



    Many thanks

    Matt
  20. Steve
    Steve avatar
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    16 Nov 2010
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    Over here is where I'm getting confused

    "we restricting the concurrent users by a role. In other words, we are counting the concurrent users in the Backend role"

    So that kind of reads like "If user X has Y role, then they are unable to log in"
  21. John S.
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    It seems like one has to seperate CMS users from web site users. If this true every one that has rights to the backend must have two log ins or there will be frequent concurrent user issues.

  22. Steve
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    I was thinking of making a "CMSEditor" user and just have them use that, but then I lose the ability to know who changed\broke things...
  23. Grisha 'Greg' Karanikolov
    Grisha 'Greg' Karanikolov avatar
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    16 Nov 2010
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    Hey guys,
    I will try to explain this with other words:
    The concurrent users limitation affects only the users that are logged into the administrative backend of Sitefinity and are performing tasks in yoursite.com/sitefinity .

    To rephrase and explain the quote from the previous post, here is how it works:

    All registered users of your Sitefinity website have their profiles in the system.
    Some of them are just visitors, who belong to the "everyone" role.
    Some of them are also members of a role that has access to restricted pages on the frontend of your website.
    Some of them (the administrators, content editors, publishers etc.) will also belong to a role  called "Backend role". By belonging to this role, they have access to the administrative backend of Sitefinity, where they can perform administrative tasks like creating pages, news items, events, forms and so on. There can be unlimited number of members of that role, however with Sitefinity 4.0 Standard, only 5 members of that role can be logged in simultaneously in your administrative backend.

    I hope that clarifies the question. Do contact me back if there's any confusion left regarding the subject.

    Clarification:
    Any user belonging to the Backend Users role or to the Administrators role who authenticates within a Sitefinity 4.0 website is counted towards the concurrent user limitation. It doesn’t matter whether this backend or admin user authenticates by logging into the public facing website, backend administration area, or a third-party application using our RESTful Web Service APIs. That user is removed from the concurrent users count when he personally logs off, he is forcefully logged off by an administrator, or his session expires. The session expiration time can be controlled from the configuration settings of Sitefinity.


    Kind regards,
    Grisha Karanikolov
    the Telerik team
    Do you want to have your say when we set our development plans? Do you want to know when a feature you care about is added or when a bug fixed? Explore the Telerik Public Issue Tracking system and vote to affect the priority of the items
  24. Steve
    Steve avatar
    3037 posts
    Registered:
    03 Dec 2008
    16 Nov 2010
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    Whew, okay, sorry for panicking over nothing :)

    (still think for $8000 Premium should be upped a bit from 10, and SBE should be 2)
  25. Phill Hodgkinson
    Phill Hodgkinson avatar
    362 posts
    Registered:
    10 Nov 2004
    16 Nov 2010
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    I agree that on all versions there needs to be a minimum of 2 users, even if one user is just a super/site admin that's not even allowed to create content. If we are forced to have only one content editor account shared with a number of people, or they each have their own, it's inevitable that people won't log out correctly and then the next person has to sit there and wait for it to time out. The user should be able to contact an admin to ask them to kick that user so that they can log in. I'm sure Telerik will say just restart the website but to me that's not an option for every time someone forgets to logout.

    Just my 2 cents even though I'm busily evaluating alternatives now, I'm still praying that there are enough changes made that allow me to continue to use SF.

    Phill
  26. Steve
    Steve avatar
    3037 posts
    Registered:
    03 Dec 2008
    16 Nov 2010
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    I don't think COMMUNITY needs to have 2 editors since it's really for a personal\blog site...and the odds that you and someone else would be editing at the same time, if there even is more than 2-3 users in the system is low or zero...but creating modules for an SBE means the chances of multiple people in the backend consuming that info increases.
  27. Gabe Sumner
    Gabe Sumner avatar
    440 posts
    Registered:
    09 Sep 2007
    16 Nov 2010
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    Phil:  If we are forced to have only one content editor account shared with a number of people, or they each have their own, it's inevitable that people won't log out correctly and then the next person has to sit there and wait for it to time out.

    When the login count has been exceeded there is an option to log off someone else (assuming the user has that permission).  No need to wait for the timeout or restart the web server.  

    Gabe Sumner
    Telerik | Sitefinity CMS
  28. John S.
    John S. avatar
    126 posts
    Registered:
    09 Aug 2004
    16 Nov 2010
    Link to this post
    Grisha,

    What you say contradicts what I was told elsewhere:

    Just a small clarification, we restricting the concurrent users by a role. In other words, we are counting the concurrent users in the Backend role. These are only users that can have permission to access the administration.

    http://www.sitefinity.com/devnet/forums/sitefinity-4-x/general-discussions/clarification-on-quot-concurrent-cms-users-quot.aspx#1417735

    I just want to make sure I understand this correctly...

    An example:

    Standard Edition

    I have a user Frank that is assigned 3 roles; Backed Page Editing, Backend User Administration, and Lunch Menu Page (which is a secured website page).

    Currently there are 5 people logged in and changing page content in the Backend CMS area

    Frank logs in to see whats for lunch today and does NOT go to the Backed Page Editing or User Administration (although there are links for him to go to those pages if he suddenly desires to). 

    Is he allowed to go to this lunch page or will he get a message there are too many current CMS users?

    Thanks,
    John




  29. Markus
    Markus avatar
    2763 posts
    Registered:
    25 Nov 2005
    16 Nov 2010
    Link to this post
    I agree with Steve

    CE only 1 needed
    SBE should have 2 (otherwise it would be a VSBE = Very Small Business Edition :-)

    Feel a bit like Telerik is taking a beating. Maybe we shold cut them some slack. They will come up with the best solution and have shown to be flexible in the past.

    markus
  30. Jason
    Jason avatar
    18 posts
    Registered:
    23 Jun 2006
    16 Nov 2010
    Link to this post
    I think the idea that only '5 people' can use this software for 10 concurrently is probably unsettling since we are not used to this level of pricing. That is 900 a seat. Even high end ERP software, would not see much above 100 per seat.

    I also believe that the argument that Telerik keeps making that 10 is 'more than enough' or 5 is 'more than enough' or even in a company that has 300 employees won't rise about '10 concurrent' users is actually an argument against themselves. Because, if in fact is is 'more than enough' then why not just make it unlimited?

    I think, again that they should limit features (such as forms builder, or eCommerce, or even Polls, Forums, Etc.), but should not limit concurrent users.

    I also realize that this is a country where we are brought up to believe in free business. And, since I don't own this, I can make the choice to either buy it, or not buy it. And, although I would prefer to have them remove the concurrent user limit, that does not change one fact. Just because they offered a product for 900 before, does not mean they have any reason to offer it for 900 forever.

    HOWEVER, I do believe that it was GROSSLY inconsiderate to wait so long to release such a different pricing scheme. And, with that being said, I believe Telerik did a HUGE disservice and injustice to many people.

    Given the nature of the business, some projects begin planning months in advance of coding. Selection of platform, architecture, etc are done up front. I think it is a shame that Telerik released Beta 2, etc, and allowed people to build out their software ahead of time, without having any INKLING There would be a 20 times price increase.

    Telerik should have either 

    1) Annonced these pricing changes WELL before 4.0 was in a state someone could begin a project on it.
    2) Allow ANYONE that owns a license to any site with a subscription to have access to upgrade to the 20,000 Enterprise version for free.

    Shame on Telerik for allowing people to put time and money into implementing a platform without giving us a hint that the big bus was about to run our projects over.
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