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Scalability of Sitefinity

12 posts, 0 answered
  1. Mike
    Mike avatar
    208 posts
    Registered:
    10 Dec 2007
    08 Oct 2008
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    Hi,

    I'm putting together a proposal for a client, and several things in it cause me to wonder about scalability.  Do you have any guidance on if there is a limit to how many pages in a single domain Sitefinity would support? 

    What about users?  It looks like you're using a basic AspNetSqlMembership provider, but I can't seem to find any information on how scalable that is. 

    Thanks,
    Mike Sharp
  2. Joe
    Joe avatar
    138 posts
    Registered:
    24 Sep 2012
    08 Oct 2008
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    Hi Mike,

    Thanks for contacting us.

    Sitefinity's scalability depends on several things :

     - Server hardware
     - Network speed
     - Users activity on the web-site
     - Sitefinity settings like caching

    Unofficial Stress tests show failure at around 150,000 page views per hour without output cache on dual CPU P4 single machine. With output cache turned on, the same test measures well over 1,000,000 page views per hour.

    For better performance, please consider caching as this article will show you. More info on caching at the page level can be found in Working with Pages of our User Manual. Our system can also be load balanced and please read Deploying Sitefinity in a Load Balanced Web Farm Environment in our User Manual.

    You are correct that we're using the AspNetSqlMembership provider, so all of the API is the same. If you open the Web.config of a Sitefinity project, you will see the profile provider there as shown below:

    <profile defaultProvider="Sitefinity"
                <providers> 
                    <clear/> 
                    <add name="Sitefinity" connectionStringName="DefaultConnection" applicationName="/" type="Telerik.DataAccess.AspnetProviders.TelerikProfileProvider, Telerik.DataAccess"/> 
                </providers> 
                <properties> 
                    <add name="FirstName"/> 
                    <add name="LastName"/> 
                </properties> 
            </profile> 


    I hope that I have clearly answered your questions. Feel free to contact us if you need further assistance.

    All the best,
    Joe
    the Telerik team

    Check out Telerik Trainer, the state of the art learning tool for Telerik products.
  3. Mike
    Mike avatar
    208 posts
    Registered:
    10 Dec 2007
    08 Oct 2008
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    Hi Joe,

    Thanks for your response.  I'm not talking quite as much about page views per hour (although your numbers are quite encouraging), but rather total number of pages in the database.  For example, if I built a social networking site under a single application, where each user had their own page, and it ended up with 500,000 users and the same number of separate pages in the database, would Sitefinity strain?  How about if it was 5,000,000 users/pages?  More?

    In SharePoint, for example, there are limits to how many items in a list, or how many pages in a site library, I assume because of the sql query that has to run on the back end.  Are you aware of limits or at least a point of diminishing return for total number of pages and total number of users?

    Thanks,
    Mike
  4. Georgi
    Georgi avatar
    3583 posts
    Registered:
    28 Oct 2016
    13 Oct 2008
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    Hello Mike,

    We have never tried to use so much pages and users in Sitefinity, nor we have information from the community if someone have ever done it. Our internal tests for different cases went to 20.000 pages, and the only problem with that number was with the Pages Tree in the administration, if all these pages belong to one parent page.
    We know that there are projects run on Sitefinity with about 5000 users without problems.

    We apologize that could not give you information about such a case. The thing you should consider if you built such a web site, is the cache.

    Sincerely yours,
    Georgi
    the Telerik team

    Check out Telerik Trainer, the state of the art learning tool for Telerik products.
  5. Mike
    Mike avatar
    208 posts
    Registered:
    10 Dec 2007
    13 Oct 2008
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    Thanks for the info, Georgi.  That's helpful.  I hadn't thought about the site admin UI...I guess then if you were going to have a large number of pages, you'd want to split them up into page groups.  I'm not yet sure for this particular project how that would work, but I can probably use arbitrary page groups, if necessary.  Since I can rewrite page URLs easily, it would be transparent to the end users.  I think 20,000 pages would be enough for the near term on this particular project...

    Based on another thread in this forum, I've been investigating limits for AspNetSqlMembership, and can't seem to find any capacity planning guidance from Microsoft or others specifically on that (what I have found is more about SharePoint limitations than membership limits), so it seems like membership isn't going to be an issue.  The queries running on the membership tables are probably fairly simple, so I guess this isn't going to be my limiting factor.
  6. Georgi
    Georgi avatar
    3583 posts
    Registered:
    28 Oct 2016
    14 Oct 2008
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    Hi Mike,

    Yes, sure you can use the UrlRewriter for this case. I will schedule some tasks for testing with many pages and will come back to you if there are any surprises or issues.
    As for the AspNetSqlMembership we couldn't find any additional information also.

    All the best,
    Georgi
    the Telerik team

    Check out Telerik Trainer, the state of the art learning tool for Telerik products.
  7. Adam
    Adam avatar
    63 posts
    Registered:
    30 Jan 2008
    10 Jan 2009
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    You mentioned the CPU,  how much RAM did your test server have?  I know that using page caching needs RAM to be the most effective.  I have a single core P4 with 1GB of RAM and about 5,000 page views per hour.  I'm hoping that will get the job done.
  8. Mike
    Mike avatar
    208 posts
    Registered:
    10 Dec 2007
    10 Jan 2009
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    My 2 cents:   1 GB of ram doesn't seem like enough if you're going to use output caching, especially if SQL Server is running on the same machine.  It may be adequate at that page rate without output caching, but there is still some internal ASP.NET caching going on. 

    You might consider setting up some performance counters to see how things are going.  In particular, the Cache Total Turnover Rate, which will tell you how effectively the cache is being used.  If you see a large number here, then you're not using the cache well, and you may be starved for memory.  The Cache counters will count both any caching you do via the API, as well as the internal .NET framework caching.

    SQL Server likes lots of memory for it's own version of caching, so an extra GB of ram or so would probably net you a lot.

    Regards,
    Mike Sharp
  9. Georgi
    Georgi avatar
    3583 posts
    Registered:
    28 Oct 2016
    12 Jan 2009
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    Hello guys,

    I just want to follow up here as well, that in Sitefinity 3.6 there will be implemented new base classes for cache substitution controls and custom cache dependencies. They would really help you to make your pages cached, but still dynamic in some areas.

    All the best,
    Georgi
    the Telerik team

    Check out Telerik Trainer, the state of the art learning tool for Telerik products.
  10. Jason
    Jason avatar
    3 posts
    Registered:
    27 May 2009
    04 Nov 2009
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    Hi,

    Do you have any specifics about scalability?

    I.e. the product was loaded tested on X specification server.
    This achieved x number of simultaneous hits at one given time which resulted in a average page load of x seconds.

    Any load balancing software generally gives a chart showing a ramp up of simultaneous sessions against response times.

    i.e.
    1 sessions| response time 1 seconds
    100 sessions|  response time 2 seconds
    1000 sessions|  response time 3 seconds
    and so on.

    It would give anyone an idea of what hardware they need to through out this to the results they want to achieve?

    If you done have this - could you do it?  Theres plenty of low cost software out there that you can record a session on a Sitefinity website and then tell it how many users to ramp it up to producing the output mentioned above.

    (we generally use http://www.paessler.com/webstress/?utm_campaign=GoogleAdwords&utm_medium=ppc&utm_source=webstress_search&adgroup=website-load-test&ad=005&gclid=CLDkkLO58Z0CFVVu4wodcSM5Lg  - its cheap and easy to use! )

  11. Georgi
    Georgi avatar
    3583 posts
    Registered:
    28 Oct 2016
    04 Nov 2009
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    Hello Jason,

    Thank you for your opinion. I think that this might help -

    Sitefinity 3.5 is tested on Dual Core XEON machine, with 4Gigs of ram. We were testing our TIU web site (the demo site) and were able to achieve about 150 requests/second without any caching. With caching turned on, the number raised to 250requests/second. Sitefinity 3.6 was optimized and a new caching architecture was introduced, so we believe we will be able to achieve even better results. Please check the following blog posts comments - http://www.sitefinity.com/blogs/ivan/posts/08-11-06/telerik_com_running_on_sitefinity.aspx

    This is the machine on which both telerik.com and sitefinity.com is running, without issues so far (and the page counters go mad especially in release times ;) ).

    Sincerely yours,
    Georgi
    the Telerik team

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  12. Jason
    Jason avatar
    3 posts
    Registered:
    27 May 2009
    04 Nov 2009
    Link to this post
    exactly what I was after!

    Thanks,
    Jason
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12 posts, 0 answered