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Forums / General Discussions / Sitefinity 2011 Q1 postponed by one week

Sitefinity 2011 Q1 postponed by one week

92 posts, 0 answered
  1. Michael
    Michael avatar
    59 posts
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    02 Nov 2010
    14 Apr 2011
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    Sitefinity should read this article.....

    10 Deadly Sins of Software Estimation
  2. George
    George avatar
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    24 Apr 2005
    14 Apr 2011
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    @Markus,

    I hear what you are saying, and I've always been a staunch supporter of Telerik overall, and refrain from negative comments because things happen.  Unfortunately, the problem at this moment IS the lack of communication.  When people ask "What's the status", what am I supposed to say?  "Uh... Telerik will have an official statement soon."?

    I'm with you and can hang on, but someone at Telerik needs to step up and smack some Sitefinity people on the back of the head (Jethro Gibbs style!), and tell us what the heck is going on, and we deserve more than a generic "umm, they are still working on some stuff.".

    Here's to hoping...

    Greg
  3. Steve
    Steve avatar
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    14 Apr 2011
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    JUST heard on the WebUI webinar....postponed until the END of next week due to a breaking bug
  4. Phill Hodgkinson
    Phill Hodgkinson avatar
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    14 Apr 2011
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    @Steve, now that's what I call living up to expectations! I am not disappointed because I've long given up on Telerik delivering Sitefinity on-time and without bugs. I am, like many others disappointed that they still can't "man up" and communicate to their paying customers that something has gone wrong. If this is a show stopping/breaking bug there's no way it showed up at the last second, they had to have known about this earlier. However they choose to keep us all in the dark and hope that they got lucky and could stick to their release date. 

    I'm a developer, but don't ever claim to be top notch, yet I know enough to estimate a time frame and double it for unknowns and more importantly I know that communication with my clients is the most important part of business.

    Maybe they'll learn, maybe...
  5. Andres
    Andres avatar
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    14 Apr 2011
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    Hi guys, is the day after and still haven't received a word.
    Telerik, PLEASE tell us if the Q1 release is finished and we are just waiting for the publishing and polishing of the articles and blog posts and so, or it was DELAYED again.
    It's disrecpectful and a ver bad practice to promise a delivery date and not even letting your customers know what is happening.
    Thanks,
    Andrés.
  6. George
    George avatar
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    14 Apr 2011
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    @Steve,

    Wow!!  that it's delayed (though not exactly surprised), but the real WOW is that it's third hand through a Webinar not even related to Sitefinity.

    Information...  that's all I ask.

    Greg
  7. Steve
    Steve avatar
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    14 Apr 2011
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    You can findout a lot of things by keeping your ear to the team pulse of telerik ;)

    Example
  8. Gabe Sumner
    Gabe Sumner avatar
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    09 Sep 2007
    14 Apr 2011
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    Hey everyone,

    First I want to apologize for our silence.  We genuinely thought the release was imminent.  Rather than post a trickle of “not here yet” messages, we decided to post when the release was available.

    This is not that post though, otherwise I wouldn’t be involved:  :)

    Drafting an "Official Statement" usually means bad news as they're trying to word it so it doesn't cause another flame war

    I guess I’m drafting the official statement and I have some bad news.  Nor do I have high hopes of avoiding a flame war, but I am hoping to offer an explanation of what is happening.  

    Let’s start with the obvious:

    What is the status of Sitefinity 4.1 release?

    Here is the message I have from the team:

    We discovered a last minute problem related to memory leaks and we are working on a fix.   Last night was spent working on a solution and hoping for a quick resolution. Our expectation was to release early in the morning today. Thus, the lack of official announcement.  However, the issue appeared to be more complicated than we expected. In order to resolve this problem and deliver a stable product, the release of Sitefinity 4.1 has been postponed for next week.

    Long-story short, there were some memory issues discovered and the release has been rescheduled for next week.   We’re being intentionally non-specific about the week-long release window.  Obviously we don’t want to delay a 3rd time.  

    But this doesn’t really address the frustration in this thread…

    Why does this keep happening?

    As someone who is responsible for creating enthusiasm around each release, I can fully relate to everyone’s frustration.   This is a good release ~~ and the team packed an amazing amount into it.  However, I’m now going into next week’s webinar with negativity about this release.  It’s unfortunate.

    In a nutshell, these delays are simply a case of us biting off more than we can chew.   We see a lot of issues and requests submitted on a daily basis and we’re trying very hard to pack as many solutions as possible into each release.  This pressure causes us to fill our plate very full.    Sometimes too full…

    This isn’t an excuse, this is an explanation.   

    What are we doing to fix this?

    I’m going to postpone my answer to this.  Everyone is anxious for an update and I want to get this posted.  The Sitefinity team is working around the clock (they still have a lot work ahead of them) and it’s not useful for me to start asking lots of questions in the midst of this.

    However, there is already a lot that we are doing to improve:

    -  Growing the team
    -  Adhering to a regular release schedule – this 4.1 release is the beginning of this, although we’re now off to a rough start.  However, we will get into a regular release rhythm and be better for it.

    In addition, some of this will simply settle with time.   I have a lot more to say on this topic, but I’m not going to do it right now.  I’ll revisit this after my Sitefinity 4.1 webinar.

    --

    For now I’ll only say “I’m sorry”, this is not okay from our perspective.  This is something we need to fix (and will fix).  

    Gabe Sumner
    Telerik | Sitefinity CMS
  9. Andres
    Andres avatar
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    14 Apr 2011
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    Thanks for stepping up and letting us know what's happening.
    We do understand the problems the team are facing, and of course we would like not to suffer from them, but if we have to at least we need to be informed.
    I guess we all would like to see a post like this yesterday, and I'm sure people would be worried but not angry.
    Having said that, please take into the consideration the potential help you could receive from a larger group of people testing and possible fixing bugs in Sitefinity, and I'm talking about this community.
    here we have a lot of talented and expert people that hapily would participate in beta programs of big releases like this one, and I'm sure a few of them would also find complex bugs (like the memory leak you mentioned) and even suggest a fix.
    We are using the same tools your team is using for that (memory dump, leak memory analisys, etc), is not black magic.

    Thanks again,
    Andrés.
  10. Andres
    Andres avatar
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    14 Apr 2011
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    One more though on the Q1 release...  could you guys provide an internal build? Of course knowing it has memory leak problems we don't plan to use it in production, but there are some very important changes in the architecture of the product that we would like to test earlier than next week. Next week is our GO-LIVE date and we currently have some problems related to the shortcomings of the 4.0 version, so we implemented some nasty hacks we would like to eliminate very fast (for example the virtual path provider implementing the full page life cycle).

    Could you guys help us a little? Please?  We need to confirm our hacks aren't needed in the 4.1 version, so we can decide to hold on on those features or we need to implement them as hacks indeed.

    Thanks in advance,
    Andrés.
  11. John Tolar
    John Tolar avatar
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    07 May 2003
    14 Apr 2011
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    I couldn't add anything else to @Andres statement. This does put me behind quite a bit and I am going to have to figure out a way to push through. I agree that there is a lot of talent in this community and we are not just end users. We push this product to it's limits every day. I work with Sitefinity an average of 60 hours a week. I know when there is a problem and will seek out a solution before posting here. Just to reiterate what has been said before... Comunication is key... I could have prepared my clients. Now I have to go to them and beg forgiveness because all indications were we would have a fix today.

    Thanks Guys, you do a lot of good work, just keep us up to date. 

    Also, I would be down for a beta test of new releases.
  12. John Tolar
    John Tolar avatar
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    yes, please release a internal build.
  13. Jim
    Jim avatar
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    Internal build would be EXTREMELY helpful.  Thanks for letting us know what was up.
  14. Phill Hodgkinson
    Phill Hodgkinson avatar
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    14 Apr 2011
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    @Andres and @John, I feel you pain and your desire to get your hands on even a memory leaking verision of 4.1. However it's my understanding that prepping a build of this size is not a simple task and I would much rather they focused on getting the leak fixed and the official release out the door instead of wasting time on a step they'd have to do again in a week (not holding my breath on that time frame though).


    In the end if you test against internal build (which you can't deploy to live w/ nasty memory leak) you might find they've got the fix you need there but it doesn't mean it won't get broken again between now and official release so you'd have to test again. I say let them focus on task at hand and wait just a little bit longer...


  15. George
    George avatar
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    14 Apr 2011
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    If we are taking votes, yes, please release an internal build.  I can deal with a memory leak in development, but like Andres I have hacks to deal with the Viewstate issues in 4.0.  I would like to remove them, or at least confirm I can remove them.

    I'm not at a point of production, but the hacks we have in place add up to allot of development hoops we have to jump through that I would like to eliminate.

    Thanks, Greg

    (EDIT):  However, Phil makes a very good point, though my understanding was that there is a group that handles deployment, and those that develop.  Under proper Source Control policies, the deployment team should be able to produce an internal build.  (If that's not the case, then Phil's statement carries much more weight).
  16. Gabe Sumner
    Gabe Sumner avatar
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    In my original message I had a paragraph typed about an internal build being available, however the team simply wasn't able to get it posted.  It's almost 9pm there and they are exhausted.  Georgi expressed that we would try to get something posted tomorrow, but we'll see.

    I wish I had it immediately available.  It was a conversation we had, but they're running on fumes right now.

    Gabe Sumner
    Telerik | Sitefinity CMS
  17. John Tolar
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    Phil,

    I do understand that there is no guarantee that the same things wont break again, but I am in the same boat as all the other looking for an internal build. At least I would know if I will be able to eliminate my hacks, I would better know where to put my efforts in anticipation of the official release. 

    Gabe,

    I totally understand they are gassed. I am in the same time zone as you and I have had 4 hours sleep since Tuesday 7:00 am. After a while you start chasing your tail.
  18. Daniel Plomp
    Daniel Plomp avatar
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    14 Apr 2011
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    Thanks for the update!
    I'm voting for a better, more usable version then giving priority to a deadline.

    Keep up the good work!

    Regards,
    Daniel
  19. Jean
    Jean avatar
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    15 Apr 2011
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    @Gabe, Unfortuantly my clients are not as forgiving as your clients, hence I'm going to be hanged for this. I'm also sorry, but this is the last time I'm putting my reputation at risk by utilizing your company's product and promises. Like I said in a previous post, at least a week before a ,release everything should be finalized and tested, that's how we run our shop and avoid this situations. May I offer some advice on how to tackle the problems Sitefinity is facing right now, instead of trying to cram everything into a release, why not opt for smaller more frequent releases. I know I wouldn't mind upgrading every two weeks. Maybe do functionality releases every two weeks, with weekly hotfixes for bugs, just a thought. For now however I will be looking else where. I most likely will only look at Sitefinity again next year.
  20. Pavol Kokinda
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    15 Apr 2011
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    I can only agree to post from @Jean. I will never put my reputation at risk !!! The Sitefinity 4.0 is really a mistake with pricing and functionality.
  21. olav
    olav avatar
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    15 Apr 2011
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    Luckily, we rescheduled all our plans, as the status/events prior Q1 didn't exactly promise clear skies for the release.
    We can live with this situation a little longer, and really prefer to wait instead of wasting more time on an unfinished product with the lack of information.

    What worries me is the handling of the migration issue. I've found very little info we can rely on.
    It is not that I envy those starting fresh with SF4. To me, this simply means that the product is not finished for serious development and production use.
    Again, some info would probably make me reasonably happy again:

    - When (relative to the actual release date of Q1) can we expect to see something like a considerably fixed version of the toolkit at sitefinitymigration.codeplex.com, something that Telerik would embrace?
    I think I read somewhere that the Q2, as the first release, would include some kind of improved migration features.
    Honestly, can someone admit or deny, that by Q2 later this summer is when we first can expect to be able to convert even rather simple projects?

    I also suggest that Telerik maintains a rather complete table of features and methods that are not fully ported from 3.7 to version 4.
    Or please tell me if it's around somewhere. Thanks.
  22. Steve
    Steve avatar
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    It would still be awesome if we could get an internal today (if possible)...I'll take a memory leak in a dev environment since its already identified.

    Steve
  23. Jerami
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    15 Apr 2011
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    You know you ask your buddies where you at when they are suppose to be somewhere...they will usually tell you they are about 10 minutes closer then they actually are. I'd bet this is the same.
  24. Markus
    Markus avatar
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    15 Apr 2011
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    @Jerami

    Your comment gave me hope. I can wait 10 more minutes :-)

    Sure am glad your body dont tell you they are about 10 days closer then they really are.

    Greetings Markus
  25. Pavliks
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    15 Apr 2011
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    I have to say that this hurts, waiting, dissapointing clients and all the stress that goes along with breaking promises and commitments. I can also say, as the lead developer of my team, that I would do the exact same thing the Sitefinity team did which was to not send out 4.1 unless it worked. Quality has to be priority one as your reputation relies on it.

    So the pain, ours and theirs (and they are going through pain), is unfortunate but in the end will make things better. I have confidence that Telerik will pull Sitefinity back on track and will be what we all expect, what we all know it can be. There is a reason why we use Sitefinity and that is because it is the best or at the very least the best bang for the buck. I for one am not jumping ship, cashing in my chips or selling the farm.

    4.0 with all of its problems is still a very good start and there are some awsome features in 4.0 that I find out about everyday where I stop and say to myself "wow, that's a pretty awesome feature". Hopefully that will continue with 4.1.
  26. Telerik Admin
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    15 Apr 2011
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    Dear all,

    I’m pleased to announce that we solved all critical problems last night. Today and this weekend will be spent on final testing and verification. We are planning to release early next week - on Monday or Tuesday.

    On behalf of Sitefinity team, please, accept our sincere apologies for this delay. We were working around the clock to make this release happen and were hit by a series of problems in the last hours before delivery. Going forward we will devote more attention to risk planning and mitigation.

    We also fully recognize the importance of timely and open communication.  In the midst of our efforts to solve the we did not provide you with clear indication of what was going on.  We will be more open with our expected release dates and delays from now on.

    For those of you interested in release details, a preview of Release Notes is available on this link. Feel free to comment or ask questions. Unfortunately, an internal build is not possible due to a limitation of our licensing system which doesn’t allow releasing internal build for a new product version (4.1.).

    For all of you with late client projects because of our delay, please, mention that in your tickets and we will try to treat your requests with great urgency and help you catch up with the delays.

    Now that Q1 is nearly here let me share our plans for the coming months:
    We have collected your feedback and are planning to act on it very quickly in Q2. To achieve this, we are growing the team and improving our processes. Going forward we will place more focus on risk allocation and testing processes so that we can deliver with precision. 

    As always, your ideas and participation in the community will be followed and taken into consideration.

    Thanks for your continued support!

    Yours sincerely,

    Kalina Maneva
    Unit Manager
    Sitefinity Team

  27. Andres
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    15 Apr 2011
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    Thanks a lot for the heads up, looking forward to get our hands on this release and help you guys to achieve every goal in the future, in any way we can. I would also extend a big thank you to the whole team for the extra effort they have put in solving this issue.
    Andrés.
  28. George
    George avatar
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    15 Apr 2011
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    @Kalina,

    That's great news, and thank you, for at least recognizing the communication issues over the last week.  Now, I suggest that the developers go home and get some certainly needed sleep, and let the testers have a sleepless weekend!!!!

    Thanks,

    Greg
  29. Markus
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    15 Apr 2011
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    @Kalina

    I would look at the release note preview again. In IE 9 it sure looks like there is some mentioning of 3.x and the same text appears twice.

    So the release news are kind of alpha stage :-)

    Markus
  30. George
    George avatar
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    @Markus,

    LOL... I noticed too, but I wasn't going to go there.  I just figured they're so tired, they're seeing double...  maybe even a little dillusional.  I think we've all been there (though it was a hell of allot easier 20 years ago!) :-)

    Greg
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