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Sitefinity 4.0 Pricing WAY TOO HIGH

70 posts, 0 answered
  1. Georgi
    Georgi avatar
    3583 posts
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    01 Dec 2010
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    Hello Robert,

    This was a question we've had when we announced that we are stopping the Community Edition for the 3.x versions. We've heard you back then, and have introduced a free Community edition for the 4.x versions. We hope that it will help for that purpose. 

    Best wishes,
    Georgi
    the Telerik team
    Do you want to have your say when we set our development plans? Do you want to know when a feature you care about is added or when a bug fixed? Explore the Telerik Public Issue Tracking system and vote to affect the priority of the items
  2. Markus
    Markus avatar
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    08 Dec 2010
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    Maybe one way Telerik could soften the blow a bit would be a time period in which the old pricing is still applied to the standard version. 900 USD instead of 2000 USD

    4.0 will not be really feature complete. Lots of stuff will be added after release (even some stuff from 3.7 will not be ready in January if I recall correct). Some things will never be the same as in 3.7 (concurrent users)

    So you kind of pay up front for featurs you will receive some time later (might be a month or a couple of month)

    It's like buying a car and the dealer tells you the radio, electrical windows and remote lock will be added when you bring your car in after 10'000 miles (and right, you go from unlimied CD to 3 CD)

    So to make the switch a bit more attraktive this could be one way to go.

    But then again - I just looked at another CMS with much more features for the same price, but its just not Sitefinity. So maybe its better to buy a BMW with the readio delivered later then buying a Skoda with the CD Changer in from the start :-)

    Love Sitefinity and hope 4.1 will be released very very soon after 4.0

    Markus

  3. Georgi
    Georgi avatar
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    08 Dec 2010
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    Hello,

    While you are right that some features are missing, you cannot just close your eyes on the features coming with the Official release - Search, with an option to combine different type data sources to go to the index, without the need to create custom indexes (!!!), Browse and Edit feature, Custom Content Fields with UI - so you don't have to work with code (!!!), Start-Up kits, that you can use right away with any edition of Sitefinity, SDK and comprehensive guides for each type of users (content writers, administrators, power users, designers, developers). Another thing is, we are certainly listening to your feedback (as always) on the concurrent users, and will do something there in order to achieve more balance (more satisfaction for you, more flexibility from the CMS side). The official release will bring javascript optimizations - most of the scrips will be combined, something that you had to do manually with the previous versions.

    We are aiming to produce more documents like this one - Developer Productivity Outline - that will show what is under the hood, not just features that you can see on the surface. 

    Marcus, I like the association you did :)

    Best wishes,
    Georgi
    the Telerik team
    Do you want to have your say when we set our development plans? Do you want to know when a feature you care about is added or when a bug fixed? Explore the Telerik Public Issue Tracking system and vote to affect the priority of the items
  4. Steve
    Steve avatar
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    08 Dec 2010
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    Oooh, Bambooey
  5. Markus
    Markus avatar
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    08 Dec 2010
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    Dear Georgi

    Well the best feature about Sitefinity is the support you get. I was born in Munich so I for sure will try to get the BMW because I trust they will put in a radio thats mutch better then any other brand :-)

    You are right that SF is under the hood probably just way better then any other CMS. But then again go shopping for a car with your wife (or a CMS with a customer) and they will never ever look under the hood.

    Am am glad to hear that the CD changer (conncurrent user) is back in discussion.

    Looking forward to great new things to come but I think you guys wont have much time of between X-mas and new year if you realy want to deliver all those things till January 14.

    But there is one thing we allways say. A day has 24 hours and if this is not enough you can work at night too.,

    Regards Markus

    PS: I don't have my eyes closed  - I just don't see browse and edit yet :-)

    @steve
    What does this mean? Oooh, Bambooey
  6. Georgi
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    08 Dec 2010
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    Hi Markus Berchtold,

    You do not see it because we are releasing mainly fixes with our weekly builds. The build with the features is coming soon :) The Browse and Edit is currently in testing phase.

    Kind regards,
    Georgi
    the Telerik team
    Do you want to have your say when we set our development plans? Do you want to know when a feature you care about is added or when a bug fixed? Explore the Telerik Public Issue Tracking system and vote to affect the priority of the items
  7. IT
    IT avatar
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    30 Sep 2008
    08 Dec 2010
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    " you cannot just close your eyes on the features coming with the Official release"

    Yes I can. To keep with the car analogy, you've created a beautiful looking car (marketing/promised features). However, if you look under the hood, you put a governor or us by telling us the upgrade we get is limited in concurrent CMS users, took away six cylinders (the ability to do web balancing), taken away the leather seats, power windows, heated seats, A/C, radio, power steering, navigation, and integrated Bluetooth (Breadcrumb, Search Control, Generic Content Link from Content Block, Forums Module, Newsletter Module, Lists Module, Polls, Wiki). So I have a cool looking car that can't go more than 10MPH that I'm told can be upgraded sometime after I buy it. 

    Also, I can't close my eyes regarding the migration. I won't be able to use any of the new 4.0 features until our site is migrated. I've been trying to keep a cool head and have started seriously evaluating 4.0. Unfortunately the migration is a disaster. Not only do I have to download code (which needs to be tweaked), build, and install it in a couple places but when I do the migration it either doesn't work or only does a subset of the work. In the current state of things, we'll need to schedule a couple of weeks just to migrate our site. I haven't seen anything about what I can expect or when I can expect it when it comes to migration. If I'm going to make a purchase before the prices go up, I should at least have the right tools to evaluate the product and migration before making a purchasing decision. After all, if we have to have multiple resources dedicated to migrating, setting permissions, fixing external links, etc., on 1200 pages that could take weeks to migrate and QA - costing us several thousand additional dollars! At that point it does make sense to consider using the migration tool to push content into another CMS. If you made it simple enough, I would have another reason keep the status quo.

    For a significant upgrade fee (we now need professional or enterprise) plus a substantially higher annual cost, I had sort of assumed that the transition from 3.7 -> 4.0 was going to be smooth. 

    Lastly, how you can have a "release candidate" that isn't feature complete is beyond comprehension. I expect a release candidate to be feature complete with some bugs. With all due respect, you should really continue to call this product what it is - a beta. From Wikipedia (and any other firm I've worked with in the past):

    "The term release candidate (RC) refers to a version with potential to be a final product, ready to release unless fatal bugs emerge. In this stage of product stabilization, all product features have been designed, coded and tested through one or more beta cycles with no known showstopper-class bug."

    Clearly this product isn't there yet. 

    I hope you shock me by getting everything wrapped up and delivered by your January deadline. I'm not ready to bail on Sitefinity at this point, but you've got a lot to get done before you convince me to stay with your company.

    I've been patient for a long time and I'm trying to make the best of a frustrating situation. Sorry for the rant.
  8. MB
    MB avatar
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    08 Dec 2010
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    @Stormy:  "I expect a release candidate to be feature complete with some bugs"

    No, an RC should be feature complete and contain NO KNOWN BUGS. i.e. It is considered ready to release for sale, but subject to final fixes, should the RC turn up any previously unknown bugs.

    Beta is normally a feature complete stage but with known bugs still to be hammered out and perf tuning to be done.

    Alpha (these days often euphemistically labelled as "community technical preview" - CTP) is normally a development stage with missing features, known bugs and obvious performance issues.

    It's very hard to see the current release as an RC, and even to see it as a Beta you have to squint and look at it in the best light, giving it a large benefit of doubt.
  9. IT
    IT avatar
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    09 Dec 2010
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    @MB - Of course you'r correct... I was trying to be charitable in my rant :)
  10. thelyrist
    thelyrist avatar
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    09 Dec 2010
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    After receiving the "renew your expired license now to get your 4.0 at discounted rate" email from telerik, I decided not to worry about the cost and tried to welcome 4.0 with open arms.

    There are still quite a few bugs (I only tried the image library section and it was not really usable at all--that's for another thread), and I agree that the 4.0RC is not of RC quality yet.

    What really bugs me is that after a few years of development (between 3.x and 4.0 RC), there is still no easy way for the users to order the images in the image library!

    In the 3.x days my client always asks me how to make sure a particular image is shown as the thumbnail of the album or re-order the images in the album.  I have to tell them just save the image you want to appear first last!  It is very counterintuitive.  I know I can add an extra ordinal field, but ultimately drag and drop sorting will be most welcome.  For a $2,000 CMS, I think this functionality is a no-brainer.

    I am still on the fence as for whether to recommend my client to renew the expired 3.x license, but with the new price tag I am expecting a little bit more from 4.0.  At this rate, we might not see a usable version of 4.x until next summer.

  11. Paul Rickard
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    20 Dec 2010
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    We are planning on a restructure/redesign of our government website and I was suggesting to one of my bosses that we go the CMS route and get Sitefinity. I used a community version a while back testing it out and liked the way it worked. There were some minor things that I didn't like such as form creation and they mentioned they were working on adding that in a later release of the "real" version of the 3.x. I knew it was $899 and my boss was stating that we can see about using it since we use Telerik ASP.Net controls already and like their products. I just showed him the new prices this morning and he said there is no way we are doing it now. How can something go from $899 for the CMS to various versions where we would actually have to have at the very least $8k version since the number of concurrent users is 10 and hopefully we don't have anymore on at that same time or someone isn't going to be able to use it. We would also need load balancing support. So, yes, argue it all you want Telerki people. You lost another potential customer as that is way too much of a jump and not worth using.
  12. TonyG
    TonyG avatar
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    25 Dec 2010
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    I stumbled upon this thread and thought I'd add a note.

    As a mostly happy RadControls developer I've recommended that package to my clients. Looking to invest further into all things Telerik I took a look at SiteFinity a few months ago.  I found the pricing model completely unrealistic and uninviting.  I'm sticking with Drupal based on LAMP and will call off-site to my ASP.NET server to provide RadControl content.

    My suggestion is that Telerik offer a free single-user developer edition to get us hooked on the product.  Then offer a pay-as-you go licensing model so that we can deploy small sites without a prohibitive entry-level cost for smaller sites.  I propose something like $20/month for limited usage.  Ala-carte features can be activated separately or Telerik can build in a phone-home model to monitor and bill for usage.  The more I use it, the more I will pay, but I'm not going to spend thousands of dollars up-front, per site on any software.

    Telerik if you don't like my numbers or the details, let's talk about it, but we need to negotiate somewhere from where you are to a point where I and lots of people like me will consider the cost/value to be equitable.  Right now you're just off the table and not open to negotiation.  This is what I mean by uninviting.   I'm not even considering this product and not looking at ads or update notices because I consider the product so outlandishly out of range for my use and for my prospect audiences.

    I want to use and recommend your software, but you need to be realistic about the value you provide and the price that end-users will pay for such value - especially when we're faced daily with the "but it's free" mantra of people comparing commercial tools with FOSS.  I strongly encourage you to consider making this a lower-cost, higher-volume product rather than the current high-ticket low-volume product that it seems to be.  You can try that model as an experiment and if it doesn't work, plan for and advertise that after the special promotion that the cost for new sites will go back to current pricing without affecting existing sites.  I think most of us can deal with that.

    I hope that helps.

    "FOSS is only free if your time is worthless."
  13. Jaime Weise
    Jaime Weise avatar
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    26 Mar 2012
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    Oh common guys this is cheap, and look the most popular is the professional version at a meager ($8000)-  http://www.sitefinity.com/purchase.aspxDon't worry the future of cms will show its head soon. The experience is far from smooth in Sitefinity, too. It seemed promising at first but not much better than crappy DNN. 

    Funny, that as a response to the biggest recession in recent history prices are more than doubled. 
  14. Jaime Weise
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    Don't get me wrong, I like telerik. I just can't afford them. 
  15. Ben Alexandra
    Ben Alexandra avatar
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    26 Mar 2012
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    I think we All love Telerik & Sitefinity, which is why we are trying to get them to be more reasonable with their prices instead of just going elsewhere, but yes, it is becoming very difficult to afford them and I think a lot of us feel that we helped them build up and now they are leaving us in the dust for bigger fish and more profits and that sucks.
  16. MB
    MB avatar
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    26 Mar 2012
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    The current pricing forces people to buy more Sitefinity than they really need, for any given site... i.e. In order to meet your actual requirements, you are often going to end up buying massive capacity over-kill and multiple unused features - which is difficult to justify to an accountant.

    As I detailed earlier in this thread, I believe that the pricing needs to be more modular and based on license-pak units that you add-on to a common base, to unlock features and increase capacity. This would allow people to buy the features and capacity they need for each site, and allow them to meet the budgets of each more easily.
  17. thelyrist
    thelyrist avatar
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    26 Mar 2012
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    I guess the SME market is simply not very profitable for Telerik.

    I haven't really followed too closely with the latest development at Sitefinity lately.  I deal mostly with SME myself.  I have a couple 4.2/ 4.3 installations.  Since the new pricing I have been recommending Umbraco to my clients.  They simply don't have budget or appetite for a $2000 CMS, yet the small business edition is often too restrictive, especially there are open source solutions out there. (While I don't do PHP myself, my competitors do and their Drupal, Word Press, etc solutions are at least $500 cheaper right off the bat)

    We had some 3.x licenses and we decided to upgrade to 4 when we were still eligible for the whatever promotion they had at the time.  I left a forum post complaining the bugginess and incomplete features of the earlier 4.x versions (I am thinking 4.1).  I have done several implementations with 3.7, and the early 4.x versions were a pain to work with. (bugs with navigation, hide from navigation from pages, unusably slow speed, etc).
    Then I received a call from a gentleman (the NA sales manager I think).  He apologized for the delay of 4.x and the problem i had.  He reassured that telerik offers excellent support I won't find in open source community (which I tend to agree; telerik's service and support has always been one of its brighter spot)   I told him that I am tired of workarounds (which are often broken when telerik fixes the bugs in future versions) I asked him about the new pricing structure, suggesting a $1000 version, but he kept on telling me that there won't be a product at that price point, as it will severely hurt the sales of their standard edition.

    I commented that, the SME won't pay $2,000 (when their website budget is only $2,500, and I don't work for free), and the small business edition is too restrictive,  They are effectively pricing themselves out for the SME market.  He said they couldn't compete with Umbraco in price, but their features, track record and support are superior.  Also, he commented that (i don't remember the exact words he used, but the idea is like) usually the small vocal few made up of 80% of the complaints.  While I don't disagree that it is more difficult to serve us independent consultants, the bigger consulting firms simply moved on without commenting.  At my day job, our CMS that serves  millions traffic per month moved away from 3.7 to their competitors (think we would probably have bought the be the enteriprise license had we stayed).  I proceeded to ask him, the bottomline, is the 4.1 version better or worse than 3.7 in terms of features and stability.  He had no answer for that.  He was a nice guy and I felt sorry to ask him such a question, but as a consumer, that the most logical question to ask.  You wanted double the money yet offered me fewer features and stability?  No matter how great your road map was, the transition to 4.x was really painful as features got dropped.  The price increase was the added insult.  The reality is, the early 4.x versions were buggier, slower and less featured-rich than 3.7!

    I know sitefinity has released 4.3, 4.4 and 5.0.  I upgraded one client to 4.3 and it was much more stable.  It should have been the 4.0 version!  Yet, it was still missing some features in 3.7 and certain features already available in other CMS (even the free ones)

    In terms of ease of development, I personally find Umbraco was much more easy to work. I think the architecture in general is more well thought out.  What Sitefinity has for it is the UI is more polished than Umbraco, and its Editor is more reliable than Umbraco's for sure.  However, for some NGO, etc (which i usually work with), that doesn't justify the $2000 price tag.  (and if we go cheap with the small business edition, we might as well use Umbraco as its features ar way less restrictive.

    Now that both platform is at version 5, it will be interesting to see how they stack up against each other. 

    I commented because I love telerik and I care. I might give 5.0 community edition a try to build my new blog, but it takes a bit more to convince me that sitefinity is again a viable choice for my clients.  Not sure if telerik cares and I think it has all but given up the SME.
  18. Jaime Weise
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    I just decided to revive this post because I was sent a promotion asking me to spend $3000 for some small perk.

    Something worried me a little as I checked back on the general forum 2 hours later on  a Monday Low an behold my post was the last post received with " replied 2hours ago " marked beside it. That doesn't say much about a community--not concerned about my rant being replied to, but there were no other posts at that time.
  19. Jaime Weise
    Jaime Weise avatar
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    Just to be complete here was my offer

    We would like to let you know about a great offer, which is available until the end of this week:

    For a limited time, place a Sitefinity order worth $3,000 or more and get complimentary coaching from a Sitefinity Partner Solution Consultant with it. 

    Deal: Place a Sitefinity order worth $3,000 or more and get 4 hours ($400 value) of Sitefinity coaching with it

    Super Deal: Place a Sitefinity order worth $6,000 or more and get 8 hours ($800 value) of Sitefinity coaching with it

    Hurry! 

  20. thelyrist
    thelyrist avatar
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    26 Mar 2012
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    That reminded an offer from the gentleman I spoke with.  I made it clear to him that I wasn't looking for any perks when I complained, but he was generous to offer me... something that has been in the work... 

    drumroll... Free trial to "Telephone support from developer"

    Seriously. telephone support?  Is it the best value they can offer to a customer?  They will probably ask me for my sample code, project and db backup anyway.  One extra support incident would be 100x more useful.  Oh yes, I tried not to submit any tickets because the small business edition comes with a number of incidents only.  Tried not to waste the quota....
  21. Markus
    Markus avatar
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    27 Mar 2012
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    @All
    I have been using SF for quite some time and work mostly with small business. The 500 USD for the SBE are well worth it. I know how hard it is to convince small businesses that 500 USD for something you can have for free is worth it.
    But do yourself and your clients a favour and install Jommla or Typo3 next to Sitefnity and you will see that SF is simply usability wise 5 years ahead.
    Concerning the features. Yes SF might still be a bit behind. But I rather sell my clients a car without the sun roof if they can drive it.
    Yes there are some things I miss in the SBE (nag nag nag - multiple backend languages and so) but in general 50 pages has been enough for my clients.
    Concerning the rest. In the past 12 month SF has come to where it should have been when 4.0 was released. And yes SF still has a lot potential so stay tuned for new great stuff to come.
    I am sure 2012 will be the year when Telerik with SF will deliver again more then we expect.
    Markus
  22. Ben Alexandra
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    27 Mar 2012
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    Hi Markus,

    I agree that $500 might be worth it, the problem is that to really use SF most people need at least the $2,000 version and quite quickly you jump up to needing the $8,000 version.  That is MUCH more difficult to justify.  

    If you write an app that uses integrated security with SF and you are on the $2,000 version then you can only have 5 admins logged in at once to this app.  These users might not be editing pages but if they want a single login to edit backend and admin some tool you wrote then only 5 can be in the system at the same time at all.  Or you pay $8,000 and you can have 10 of them in.  This is very expensive and super restrictive but it's how it works right now.

    I think most of us love the product but feel the pricing is just way too high, even with all the new features (which have been dribbling in for the past year and even with the ones that are planned).

    I don't want to switch to Umbraco or any other CMS.  I want to stick with SF but my clients simply won't go for it at this price tag!

    That's just my $0.02

    Ben
  23. Gabe Sumner
    Gabe Sumner avatar
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    This thread is pretty stale at this point (started in 2010).  Although I certainly recognize that pricing continues to be a point of contention for some projects.  However, I haven't overheard any internal conversations about changing the pricing or licensing.  I think everyone is reasonably happy with how we're positioned in the marketplace.  We're certainly not priced at the high-end of the market, nor are we priced at the low-end (free) of the market.  

    I wrote a blog post awhile ago with my own personal take on how to value a CMS.  I encourage organizations to base their web site investment on a fractional % of the revenue attached to their web site.  In this context, CMS and web design costs are minimal.  What is more important is the capacity of the CMS to help an organization be more effective.  Costs are then easily reclaimed through productivity enhancements or new revenue.  This is where we ultimately want to compete.  

    Once you look past the one-time fractional investment of a few $1,000 you can have a nuanced conversation about business objectives and how best to achieve those objectives.  Towards that end, the CMS becomes a means to an end and we are working to make Sitefinity the best tool for the job.  However, I recognize that every project is different.

    Gabe Sumner
    Telerik | Sitefinity CMS
  24. Chanan Zass
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    27 Mar 2012
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    We, too, just as Ben Alexandra, feel we've contributed to building this product (in our case providing a language pack and user controls) and then tossed in the dust for not fitting the profile of the newly-defined target audience.
    But you got to simply deal with it, as pricing is not going to change.
    We provide our own simplified CMS to smaller companies, but continue upgrading Sitefinity for bigger companies -- mostly because their users got used to working with Sitefinity, but also because over the years we've added so many custom user controls that switching to another system would be bad business for us.
    Let's hope version 5 delivers on the promises.

  25. TonyG
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    27 Mar 2012
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    We're all interested in Telerik's success. While consensus here is that there is a lot of room for improvement (increased revenue and adoption), if the company is comfortable with their current positioning, there is only so much that people like us can do to present a case for change.

    I think people there need to internalize some concepts: Some people here like myself are saying we're simply not using, supporting, or advocating Sitefinity purely based on price, regardless of features or quality. I don't bother to look at the feature set because I can't imagine trying to sell it to any company that has a clue about the CMS industry. Others are saying they're limiting the scope of their usage and advocacy. Again, if you're really comfortable that these losses are acceptable then we can't argue, but will respectfully disagree and leave you to conduct your business as you see fit. While I do see both sides of this I have a deep sense that your management is betting on quality of quantity. That is, profit per installation is preferred over having more installations to support, which can increase support resources and the cost of business, thus perhaps reducing profitability. In this case I don't believe that's a good strategic position.

    Even if the company is targeting just a high-ticket corporate audience, you need a healthy community based around the offering. Googling for "sitefinity" reveals virtually no community, only press releases, case studies, third-party sales and support. No one is blogging about this software to sing its praises. No one is asking questions in public forums. Sure, large corporations don't hang out in blogs or forums, but without that sort of marketing support from neutral third parties, it's hard for corporate decision makers and their staff to justify a purchase of a product that's virtually unknown outside of Telerik fandom. Now, compare this to any other CMS platform which has huge community support, and you see that Sitefinity isn't positioned in a context that agrees with the current marketing strategy. You need just enough people out there raving about the platform to overcome potential sticker shock. I'm not suggesting that you need a base like Drupal, Joomla, or WordPress to lend credibility to the product (though that wouldn't hurt). But (IMO) you shouldn't rely on marketing only to people who don't experience sticker shock - and yet that seems to be exactly where the company is positioning.

    I'm sorry folks, I think you're going to have to learn a hard lesson here and I just hope no one blames the software for it. That's usually what happens - the tech people get blamed if the product isn't adopted even when people like us in the field cite obvious (to us) issues with the distribution model. Why am I even commenting on this? Because issues like that may affect the technical staff you keep or release if Sitefinity fails, and as a RadControls fan I don't want my tools of choice affected by some other unrelated product, profit center, or management team.

    Thanks for the opportunity to voice an opinion.
  26. MB
    MB avatar
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    27 Mar 2012
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    @Gabe

    I appreciate that Telerik needs to make a profit if the product is to survive, develop and be supported, but I think that the arguments put forward to justify the pricing policy miss the point entirely.

    As I see it, Telerik are choosing an extremely inflexible approach to their pricing, forcing developers to look elsewhere when their project won't fit into Telerik's pricing model, and then trying to justify their policy by arguing that the product warrants the extra expense.

    It's a bit like trying to sell a Mercedes SLK to buyer with a budget for a Hyundai, by explaining that the Mercedes is a better product... that's a valid argument in itself, but if you ain't got the money, you ain't going to buy, no matter how good the Mercedes might be.

    As I keep arguing, Telerik could address much of their problem in this area, by having a more flexible and modular pricing policy... allowing people to buy as much Sitefinity as they need for each project, rather than looking elswhere when their budget won't stretch to the required edition of Sitefinity.

    Enabling the features you need, and buying the capacity you need, via incremental add-on license/feature paks is an approach that Microsoft have used successfully for many of their products.
  27. Markus
    Markus avatar
    2763 posts
    Registered:
    25 Nov 2005
    28 Mar 2012
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    @MB
    I am the first to embrace car examples. However I have never read a post on a Mercedes forum that the SLK is priced to high :-)
    As in the realworld there are cheaper or free CMS like Joomla (Hunday) and there is Sitefinity (Mercedes).
    And this is what SF is for me a very good quality CMS :-)

    Markus

    PS: I like Audi better then Mercedes so at the end it's often a personal choice and not everyone can drive a Porsche ;-)
  28. Ben Alexandra
    Ben Alexandra avatar
    215 posts
    Registered:
    15 Sep 2012
    28 Mar 2012
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    I think if SF were a new product and came into the market at $2,000 - $8,000 with the features it had it would be a different story that what actually happened, which is that it was $899 for all features and then it suddenly jumped to $8,000 for 10 concurrent admin users!  Some of us loyal users who built significant portions of our business around this suddenly were left out in the cold and got priced out a product we were loyal to.

    We all love Sitefinity but I think a lot of us can't afford to offer it to anyone except our most profitable and large clients.

    Ben
  29. Phill Hodgkinson
    Phill Hodgkinson avatar
    362 posts
    Registered:
    10 Nov 2004
    28 Mar 2012
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    I think Ben hit's nail on head here. It's not just that it's too expensive, it's that it went from a product that many built businesses on, years of experience and suddenly the price was out of reach. In addition, at this new out of reach price tag it suddenly had fewer features, far, far more bugs and the hosting requirements are now 5-10 times more. For me it's been a tough and embarrassing year. Many of my clients who I convinced to go with SF over Open Source solutions, and who now love the product, are now told that in order to get the latest the price is now out of their budget. I've not had to retrain myself from primarily a .net developer (90%) to a php dev as I've now changed the majority of my development to using the MODX CMS. I was always a supporter of Telerik and still will be if the budget permits. One thing I've learned in my switch to Open Source is that if a product is solid then you don't actually need all the Support that Telerik provides. If there weren't so many bugs requiring so many work arounds then the Support that is such a big selling feature of Sitefinity would be obsolete.

    I do look forward to working with Sitefinity again some day, I'm just not sure when and even then I will be hesitant as once burned, twice shy (or something like that). 

    p.s. Markus, I always love your car analogies. However consider this, with SF 4 we weren't sold a Mercedes, we were sold a broken down car with only 3 wheels and a Mercedes body carefully placed on top, made to look like a nice Mercedes until you touched it. Oh and they threw in a bent bike rack and broken trailer that we didn't want in the first place.
  30. Eric Wallace
    Eric Wallace avatar
    66 posts
    Registered:
    08 Oct 2009
    28 Mar 2012
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    Man, many of you are much nicer and loyal than I am. I understand the business decisions. What I take issue with is how Telerik handled its existing customers that got them to where they were. In our case, we were promised something by sales, but that tune changed with the new version and licensing model. I also thought Vassil was very arrogant in his posts on the forums.

    As a result, I simply do not think Telerik operates with a lot of integrity and have ceased to recommend their products to many, many people, regardless of how many great features there are.
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