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Community Edition removed from site?

118 posts, 0 answered
  1. Anton Hristov
    Anton Hristov avatar
    28 posts
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    26 May 2017
    15 Mar 2010
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    Hi all,

    @Sean Haddy

    You will be able to develop with Sitefinity 4.0 on localhost without having to purchase any licenses. This is the case with the current version as well. Hence, you are able to develop a proof of concept and show it to potential customers prior to investing any financial resources in the project. Also, having a fully featured and functional Sitefinity trial edition that never expires enables everyone to evaluate and test Sitefinity against their specific project requirements and determine whether Sitefinity is the right product for them. We are also happy to work with and assist everybody in determining whether Sitefinity is a good fit for their project.

    @Jaime

    All licensing and pricing information regarding Sitefinity 4.0 will be publicly announced on our website well in advance prior to the official release. We will be very open and transparent about our business model.

    @Michael Josiah

    Thank you for the understanding and feedback! We are considering having different editions for Sitefinity 4.0 however, nothing has been finalized in terms of licensing and pricing yet.

    Best regards,

    Anton
    the Telerik team

    Do you want to have your say when we set our development plans? Do you want to know when a feature you care about is added or when a bug fixed? Explore the Telerik Public Issue Tracking system and vote to affect the priority of the items.
  2. Jaime Weise
    Jaime Weise avatar
    120 posts
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    02 Nov 2008
    19 Mar 2010
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    Hi there,

    Pricing Increase
    It seems to me that a few people have mentioned a price increase. Is this true? We are having a problem convincing our customers to buy the licensed version at $900.

    Jaime


  3. Schmidty
    Schmidty avatar
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    12 Jan 2007
    19 Mar 2010
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    I just want to chime into this as a Telerik license holder for several years.

    You can add me to the list who are interested in various editions for Sitefinity. I have not used it before but I am really looking at adding a CMS as part of my web development services that I can rely on and trust. I feel Telerik would fit this bill as I don't see any other ASP.NET built CMS that fits what I want.

    Without discussing the community edition, I cannot justify the $900 license for the small businesses and non-profits that I typically market to. They are usually looking for a solution that fits the several hundred dollar area ($300-$600) when it's all said and done. If a client needed a more corporate solution then the $900 price wouldn't be a problem. I understand the thought process for dropping the CE, and I'm totally fine with a edition that isn't free.

    I am really hoping that there is an edition of Sitefinity in the future that fits the bill for small businesses. I know I will actively be implementing it for as the platform  for clients that fit the need for a CMS. I've worked with Telerik for a few years now and  have nothing but praise for the company, products, and community.

    I can't say that you should price it at anything specific, but please do consider offering something that we developers can sell to small business clients. As I said before, if there is an edition that fits what I'm looking for the right price I will be actively using Sitefinity as my CMS solution.

    Thank you,
    Mark
  4. Mark
    Mark avatar
    8 posts
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    23 Jan 2009
    25 Mar 2010
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    Sitefinity is great product.
    The loss of an up to date community edition will be a large loss for the ASP.NET community.

    I think that the Sitefinity Community Edition drives a lot of Positive Buzz among developers and the results of their efforts produce really great websites. This buzz encourages more developers and large business to use the product which in turn helps drives the success of Telerik, Microsoft and ASP.NET.

    Without the community version the positive effect that Sitefinity has on the web developer community and the Buzz it generates will gradually lessen and eventually fade away. Sitefinity will become another Enterprise product with no interaction with the general web developer community.

    Telerik will also leave a very large gap in the market for another company to release a similar product and start building a loyal set of users based on a free version.

    I think that one of the things that Microsoft ASP.NET needs to keep its user numbers growing is a good free CMS system. Without it developers may use a PHP CMS application or an inferior ASP.Net CMS system. Both of these will result in less positivity for the ASP.NET world in general and less growth.

    Obviously Telerik can probably make enough money from selling to a group of a few of thousand Enterprise users that they do not need to worry about the growth of ASP.NET use in general.

    My Suggestions:

    1)      It would be great if Microsoft could see the advantages of keeping a free ASP.NET CMS like Sitefinity and would provide Telerik with sponsorship to release and support a 4.0 community version.

    2)      The community could provide more support to itself in a dedicated community support forum where users would answer each other’s support questions.

    3)      Telerik could charge for access to its own community version support forum or just not have one at all.

    4)      A combination of all the above.

     

    What do you think? Can we start lobbying Microsoft?

    Kind Regards,

    Mark OG.

  5. Anthony
    Anthony avatar
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    15 Aug 2008
    25 Mar 2010
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    @Mark, this is the best suggestion I've heard so far! :-)
  6. Haddicus
    Haddicus avatar
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    19 Dec 2009
    25 Mar 2010
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    I am not sure if Microsoft would go for it, but I think its worth a try. Sitefinity does a lot for the .NET community, and should be recognized for its developments of this system and its efforts to keep the system up-to-date with requests. I know it might be a tricky game of Cat & Mouse, in figuring out the details, but keeping a system like this free to the community is important for the .NET CMS OS community in the long run.
  7. bleutiger
    bleutiger avatar
    153 posts
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    23 Oct 2008
    25 Mar 2010
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    Just throwing my 2 cents in here.

    I was dumbfounded to come accross this post that the community edition was going away.  I work for a school district and we are a standard license holder but I also do development work on the side and was so excited to find a truly easy to use .NET based CMS  that was completely easy to understand for the base use and completely customizable for the advanced users.

    I definately fall into the category of very small business website developers.  I have recommended Sitefinity to every new business owner I meet.  Unfortunately most of them cannot afford the $900 pricetag for a standard license even though it is well worth the money, however they still need to compete with larger companies and their websites still need the features available here and no where else.

    I have proudly displayed the Powered by Sitefinity Logo on every community site I have been involved with and my clients have all loved it as well.

    I have also been surprised at how often it is a Telerik employee who answers the forum posts that I put out instead of other community members.

    I think the forum questions should be answered by members of the community and Standard Edition licens holders should use the private ticket system that is already in place.

    This would free up the Telerik employees who are using a lot of their time to answer community forum posts.

    I hope that Sitefinity is listening to the suggestions about at least providing a slim version "Sitefinity Lite" for us Tiny to small business website developers.  $250 would be awesome but at lease under $400.

    I will finish with this...

    I thought I had found the mothership here and was answering the call to have all of my client sites developed with Sitefinity.  I hope the next couple of months do not send me in search of another to place my confidence and trust.

  8. MB
    MB avatar
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    25 Mar 2010
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    With the utmost of respect, I don't buy the argument that small business can't afford to pay for a standard license.

    I've never come across a small business that could not afford to pay for a copy of MS Office, but any number that will all harp on about the cost of a CMS, because they have been exposed to products like Joomla, and don't know enough about the topic to appreciate the difference.

    Web-Developers are typically poor salesmen, and it's always true that it's easier to give something away than to sell it. There are plenty of cheap/free products out there for customers to save money with, if that is their focus.

    FWIW, my own approach is that if I can't convince the customer to buy a license, I walk away from the job, because they are more concerned about not spending money than they are about what I can provide them.

    I think the suggestion of the forums being supported by the community only, has much merit... and Telerik should focus on providing support via the ticket system, and providing community information via blogs and KB's.

    However, the problem with the ticket system is, how does Telerik differentiate in supporting 100 free site issues for you, because you have sold 1 license ?

    Hence, I don't believe that a free version is viable because, unless it's so emasculated as to be clearly unattractive, developers will always take the easy sales route of using the free version, and Telerik will end up paying for the support of it.

    I can see some virtue in a product matrix... the main issue being, which features do you leave out of the cheaper versions ??

    As an aside, Microsoft have their own CMS products and their own free-CMS projects, and so I think it would take a lot of convincing to get them to "sponsor" Sitefinity.
  9. Lee
    Lee avatar
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    18 Jul 2008
    25 Mar 2010
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    Here's a thought.  Why not LOWER the price of SiteFinity 4.0 to something like $399?  I know, it sounds crazy to lower the price of your new and improved product, but by doing so you increase the number of potential buyers ten fold.  So for every developer/business out there that is willing to shell out $1000+ on a CMS system, I guarantee you that there are 10 others who could go with $399.  Seems like simple math to me.  1 x $1000 or 10 x $399.

    I picked $399 because thats the maximum I would be willing to spend out of my own pocket and it's also a number that a lot of people with expense accounts can spend without approval! ;)

    I dare you to try this.  Maybe offer it as an introductory price for a limited period of time to see how it goes.  My guess it that you'll be surprised by the response (in a pleasant way ;) ).

    Best Regards,

    Lee Phillips
  10. Jaime Weise
    Jaime Weise avatar
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    26 Mar 2010
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    Do you own a small company?
    >With the utmost of respect, I don't buy the argument that small business can't afford to pay
    >for a standard license.
    You are basically generalizing about small business and it seems you probably don't have the background to back up your argument. Small business is almost a suicidal process. More than 80% of them fail within a few years and many aren't profitable for a couple of years. What part of that don't you understand?  
    >I've never come across a small business that could not afford to pay for a copy of MS
    >Office, but any number that will all harp on about the cost of a CMS, because they have
    >been exposed to products like Joomla, and don't know enough about the topic to
    >appreciate the difference. 
    Can you say one time fee?
    >Web-Developers are typically poor salesmen, and it's always true that it's easier to give
    >something away than to sell it. There are plenty of cheap/free products out there for
    >customers to save money with, if that is their focus.
    Good point but we also can't afford to develop with those softwares as our development time more than doubles or triples. Sitefinity is great but still expensive to build with in a very competitive web development market.
    FWIW, my own approach is that if I can't convince the customer to buy a license, I walk away from the job, because they are more concerned about not spending money than they are about what I can provide them.
    Sounds like you are doing well then. Good job!
    >How does Telerik differentiate in supporting 100 free site issues for you, because you have >sold 1 license ?
    Maybe ticketing from within the cms would handle that.

    >Hence, I don't believe that a free version is viable because, unless it's so emasculated as to
    >be clearly unattractive, developers will always take the easy sales route of using the free
    >version, and Telerik will end up paying for the support of it.

    Don't offer support (again Maybe ticketing from within the cms would handle that.)
    Freemium model offers the highest exposure and maximum possible growth potential and follower-ship. Give something away for free and then sell it for like $599. When you get half as many followers as a wordpress then the numbers alone will account for a much larger volume of full edition buyers than you could possibly imagine. Offer product rewards and incentives that are fun for the users.
    Jaime
  11. MB
    MB avatar
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    26 Mar 2010
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    Do you own a small company?
    >With the utmost of respect, I don't buy the argument that small business can't afford to pay
    >for a standard license.
    You are basically generalizing about small business and it seems you probably don't have the background to back up your argument. Small business is almost a suicidal process. More than 80% of them fail within a few years and many aren't profitable for a couple of years. What part of that don't you understand?  

    Actually, I do own a small business, have 30+ years experience in the industry, and know a thing or two about running them. I'm sure this was not intended as a personal slight, but please don't make assumptions about me or my background.
  12. Gabe Sumner
    Gabe Sumner avatar
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    26 Mar 2010
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    I would love to re-focus this thread on a question that Vassil posed in his original post:

    One thing that would help us is to frame what a small website is and what kind of features are required. If we can agree on those and the difference of opinion is not in terms of magnitude, I am sure that we can come up with a good proposition.

    I haven't seen many replies to this.  Our existing free version looked like this:

    - Unlimited pages
    - Unlimited users & roles
    - Unlimited simultaneous editors
    - Usable by commercial web sites
    - All the modules that were provided in the paid version
    - Usable on personal domains
    - No versioning
    - No workflow

    That covers a lot of ground.  In fact, it covers way too much ground.  For Sitefinity to survive, we needed to make some edits to this list.  So what do we change?  Limit the CMS to 25 pages?  Remove all of the modules?  What does a small business (a business that is unable to invest $899 in their web site) require from their CMS?  

    As Vassil said, we want to be fair with our cost.  However, in our minds, $899 is very very VERY fair.  We've done a ton of research on this. For what we offer, it's difficult to find competing products that are priced under $10,000.  

    Regarding lowering the price to sell more software...we have an understanding of what it costs us (money, time, effort, people) to create a CMS and support our customers to the level we want to perform.  Lowering the cost doesn't let us do the job we want to do.  Each customer has associated cost, so it's not merely a question of volume.

    So, I guess I'm left struggling to understand what feature set a $399 edition of Sitefinity would have.  This edition needs to be limited enough to make other editions of Sitefinity viable (attractive!) as well as address the budget constraints of small businesses.  Personally, I don't have a good answer to this.  Rather than do something poorly, we had decided to concentrate on what we can do well.  We're still open to suggestions though.

    Gabe Sumner
    Telerik | Sitefinity CMS
  13. paxer
    paxer avatar
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    26 Mar 2010
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    For Small Business Edition It could have for example next features

    - 25 pages
    - 100 registered users 
    - 1 editor
    - Usable by commercial web sites
    - All the modules provided in the full version but allow to have only 1 blog, maximum 3 forums, maximum 5 document libraries
    - Usable on personal domains
    - No versioning
    - No workflow
  14. Haddicus
    Haddicus avatar
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    26 Mar 2010
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    If re-factoring is the main issue, to look at producing a community edition, or a lower price edition, then definatly mark the cms page count for those accounts. I think if you started removing modules, really, what would be the point of using the system? If you do provide a great cms architecture to build upon and really want people to purchase it, I think, the documentation and structure of the customization process is vital.

    I may have jumped on ship at the wrong time, but every time I go to start modifying something, I'm left tearing through tons of different "versions" of a ongoing 'api documentation' that many have pointed me from, and to other sources. Then when I start planning, I have to re-plan, and re-architect based upon new information. This makes the process hindering and painful, and much more work than OS.

    I think small businesses, or communities are looking for several aspects these days. Simple to update pages, easy to use contact forms, and ability to easily interact with their customers. Pages should have social network linking, forums with a greater array of features in relation to many php forums available, and contact forms should be painless to setup. Ability to integrate with image/video platforms for forum users to upload content. Provide a good package that gives this, and gives the developer the ability to extend it (with solid documentation and examples to back it up), and I will pay for that, out of pocket.

    As far as the 10k price-tag, the only reason why I think this could be applicable is due to the environment. As many have said, there really isn't much going on in the CMS arena in the .NET environment, just due to its structure in the past. .NET is changing, and evolving, and Microsoft see's that as well. Just look at how much more involved Microsoft is becoming in the OS environment, compared to say, 5 years ago. They are giving many products away because they want more community environment. Which way you guys choose to go, is your business decision. There is always a product that paves an industry's roads. I think Sitefinity could do that, with the proper redirection and community support.
  15. MB
    MB avatar
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    Gabe,

    I think that's pretty much the issue - what features to leave out of a lower level product.

    For mine, I'd suggest:

     - A page limit - 25 sounds like a place to start.
     - A template limit - 5 sounds like a place to start.
     - A limit to the number of users supported by the built-in membership provider.
     - No concurrent admin log-in (multiple admins accounts ok, but use up your memberhip limit).
     - No external providers (including membership, obviously)
     - No Custom Module support
     - No Tools support
     - No Versioning
     - No FlowControl
     - Only local database support.
  16. Lee
    Lee avatar
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    26 Mar 2010
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    I don't think a feature limited edition is the answer.  I understand that there is a cost for each customer, but that cost can be lowered or recouped in a number of ways.  Why not offer the full product for $399 with no support other than the community forums, and no discounted upgrade to the next major version?  Then offer the $899+ version with 1 year of support and a discounted upgrade to the next major version after the first year.  Maybe even go to the next level and offer paid one-time immediate support. Some competitors even offer paid set up assistance, which is not a bad idea.  Many of the larger organizations will just automatically opt-in to the supported version because they aren't comfortable going without it. 

    This route would mean that you wouldn't have to split the code base or add feature locking/unlocking code to the current code base.  It would offer other revenue streams and it would increase the install base, which means more developers working with the product which means more product being sold due to their recommending to product to peers and customers.

    Just my thoughts.  Take 'em for what they're worth.
    -Lee
  17. paxer
    paxer avatar
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    Why not offer the full product for $399 with no support other than the community forums, and no discounted upgrade to the next major version? 

    I think the correct answer will be try to hire developer and ask how much will cost to build similar CMS like Sitefinity and how long time it will take. The answer will be thousands and years. Take a look on competitors CMS engines with similar features in .Net world, current 899$ is cheap. I vote for limited version for $399, it sound more realistic.

  18. Lee
    Lee avatar
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    I have to disagree paxar.  The build vs. buy argument doesn't really apply.  That's the whole reason for component vendors in the first place, to encapsulize and package reausable technology and offer it at a considerably lower price that the cost to build it.  They make their money selling enough copies of their widgets to recover their development and customer acquisition expenses.

    While I don't have any real hope that Vassil, Gabe or the rest of the Telerik team will agree, I continue to believe that offerring the full version, at a lower price with zero support would actually increase the potential revenue from the Sitefinity product line.  People who wouldn't otherwise buy it, would now buy it.  People that would buy it at the higher price probably still will, just so that they can have the support option.

    Again, I challenge Telerik to give this a try, if just for a trial period.  Prove me wrong!  I'll be first to pony up the $399.  (just don't tell my fiance that I'm spending our honeymoon money on it!)

    By the way, I haven't even played with Sitefinity yet.  I was looking for a CMS product for an idea that I had, and Sitefinity seemed the way to go, but lo and behold when I get here I'm too late for the community edition and don't want to spend $899 on an idea that may or may not be any good. :(

    Best Regards,
    Lee
  19. paxer
    paxer avatar
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    I have to disagree paxar.  The build vs. buy argument doesn't really apply.  That's the whole reason for component vendors in the first place, to encapsulize and package reausable technology and offer it at a considerably lower price that the cost to build it.  They make their money selling enough copies of their widgets to recover their development and customer acquisition expenses.

    The problem is that CMS market is not a massive market like car trading for example. CMS it's not what everyone need. I am pretty sure that even if they will reduce price, number of customers will not increase dramatically, this is only possible if they will give CMS for free.
  20. MB
    MB avatar
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    While I don't have any real hope that Vassil, Gabe or the rest of the Telerik team will agree, I continue to believe that offerring the full version, at a lower price with zero support would actually increase the potential revenue from the Sitefinity product line.  People who wouldn't otherwise buy it, would now buy it.  People that would buy it at the higher price probably still will, just so that they can have the support option.

    It would be interesting to know the proportion of customer who buy direct, build their own sites and require support vs. leave it to the developer to provide the license and support. While I would suspect the later is the larger, I can't see how selling a product without support would enhance Telerik's position or reputation.

    In my experience (admittedly a bit jaded by time) people resent paying for support at any time, and will always look for a way to avoid it, even if it means replacing the product. I find it unlikely that people will pay extra for it.

    The mind-set tends to be... I don't care how cheap it was, I bought some "stuff" and you should support it.

    However, paying extra for additional features, is a different mind-set, and people have far less resistance to paying extra to get extra "stuff".

    Of course, I'm just another 2c worth of noise from the stands.
  21. Schmidty
    Schmidty avatar
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    26 Mar 2010
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    I think a page limit (25 being the example) works. I don't have the surefire answer to what an alternative version should look at, but the example sites I look at are fit the small business scope.

    One is religious site, non-profit. Maximum pages would probably fall well under 25 pages. I wouldn't need a forum, poll, and perhaps even a calendar. Basically, I would be selective on what is needed. The benefit for these clients would be the ability of them to edit their pages, and user base would probably be just for the administrators (2 people).

    Another example site is one I was actually considering moving to the community edition some time ago. This is also a non-profit site  for several annual events. The page count would be well over 25, and would probably use the blog module for press releases. Beyond that, I wouldn't need any of the other modules or several users. The only users would probably be a few editors and the webmaster/developers. I know they are too cheap for the current price, and something lower I might be able to sell them on.

    I know a version can't be crafted to serve everyone's need but as I look at the features I see a lot of my clients looking for the basic editing capabilities. But it does depend on the type of client & their business/organization. Depending on the pricing, I think once they got used to the product it's easier to gradually go from a price like $399 to $X for the expanded features. I could see a client who had this need eventually grow their site over time. But currently some of my clients would be seeking bare bone features like the examples above.
  22. Leonard
    Leonard avatar
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    26 Mar 2010
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    Great suggestions so far, so I thought I'd give my 0.02 as well.

    I fully agree with the following:
    -> single version, fully functional: easier for everyone to develop, maintain, support, demonstrate, and, very important, it allows the client to increase its licensing needs based on the usage rather than feature set. The feature set should always be "there" in full, ready to be used, without upgrades from one version to another, etc.
    -> no free version is needed if the single version, with a full feature set, has a licensing model for all needs and client sizes (see below for more)
    -> assuming good documentation (e.g. don't create support requests because of the lack of and/or poor documentation) custom support should be done through ticketing system only, and it would be Telerik's choice whether to publish some of the answers in KB articles, or updated documentation. The number of support tickets allowed would be part of the license pack a client would purchase.
    -> the licensing model should be very simple: easy to choose the package to start with, then easy to buy more, with certain increments, as the needs increase.

    Here are my suggestions for the licensing model:
    1. Single, fully featured version, with version upgrade rights for any new additional incremental purchase (see #2).
    2. License levels or packages based on the number of CMS pages only, starting with a small number (say 10 pages) and allow the client to (easily) buy / upgrade to a larger "page pack" up to 20, 50, etc. The idea is to relate the licensing costs to the client needs for content consumption, rather than feature set. A client could use their pages as they see fit, to consume content created with any module. I don't believe the licensing model should be related in any way with the number of CMS users (it's rather implicit through the number of allowed CMS pages).
    3. Include a minimal, proportional number of support tickets with the purchase of a "page pack".
    4. Allow the client to buy additional support tickets in packages as well - have tens of questions / support needs for a starter 10 page license, no problem - buy as many as needed.
    5. Have an unlimited license offering as well (enterprise) - unlimited number of CMS pages, decent number of support requests included (the "enterprise" can always buy more - see #4), free version upgrades for 1 year (or whatever the period).

    I hope this helps --
  23. Steve
    Steve avatar
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    No, I don't like a "number of pages" model...I've bought a few domain licenses, and I don't want to have to pay more to add more pages...it's a database entry, thats not a good way of doing it.  That would just piss me off, and the clients who may decide they want to add a bunch of pages but can't becasue we need to spend the 30 days getting something through purchasing.
  24. bleutiger
    bleutiger avatar
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    I think we first need to define small business  maybe my clients would fit into the category of "tiny business".

    Most of my clients are Sole Proprietorships with 1-5 employees tops.  They have no development experience nor do they understand what is involved.  They need a website because lets face it you almost can't do business without it these days.

    They need a simple to use platform that they can hire a developer to do the design work and then edit the site themselves for all of eternity.

    The Community Edition of Sitefinity provided that.

    As far as what to keep for a reduced price edition in the future.

    Limiting pages is a bad idea...I prevents people from building a site that they want and need and ticks them off when they would have to buy the full price version to add pages.  I think you would lose customers that way.

    Someone mentioned only local database support...WHAT?!?!?  wouldn't that defete the purpose in general unless you were building an Intranet on a local network.  Most shared hosting companies have their Servers seperated.

    Instead why not make it MySQL only for the reduced price/Free version  MySQL is free and most hosting providers offer it as part of their package as well.  Then if they need database support they can get it from the community or the MySQL community if need be.

    Limit the total number of Admins to 5.  This leaves room for your Developer the head hancho and his/her secretary and maybe a couple of others.  Again this matches a lot of hosting providers FTP account limit so smaller businesses would be used to that limitation.

    I don't believe that limiting the number of users is the right answer.  What if you owned a Martial Arts school and you wanted to make a members site and you had 125 students but you were limited to 100 users...doesn't make a lot of sense.

    Forum only support is a great idea for the reduced version.  I also like the ticket system from within the CMS idea.
    But to be honest there is already a seperate ticket system on the website for License holders so that seems redundent.  If the current ticket system is open to everyone that lock it down to license holders only.

    I also agree that quantity is better than quality when it comes to software.  I agree with the poster that challenged you to lower the price rether than raise it.  I also think that you would see a drastic increase in the amount of full licenses purchased.

    I understand that it takes time and money to develop great products however I often feel like sofware companies lose a lot of potential clients because they price their products out of most peoples price range.

    It is a simple cost to benefit ratio for me.  Will paying $1000 for a license give me anything better than say learning how to use .NET Nuke for free.  Sure I have to learn a new system so it cosat me time to learn.

    However I would easily drop an investment of $399 for a product I believed in.
  25. Anthony
    Anthony avatar
    10 posts
    Registered:
    15 Aug 2008
    26 Mar 2010
    Link to this post
    My clients fall into the small business category with a resounding thump! They are not tech savvy and can just about understand CMS as meaning they do not have to pay me through the nose to do content updates for them. That in itself is usually what clinches the deal - and I always have to factor in training time because the admin of Sitefinity is not designed with these kinds of end users in mind.

    The more I read the responses here, the more I'm starting to realize that $900 is not a lot and can easily be absorbed into any quote. Sitefinity have already agreed to assist me with the one client for whom I haven't completed an existing community edition site - I honestly can't ask for more than that.

    With most competing CMS prices coming in at around $10K, this is still a sweet way to make a few bucks. And although I'm no salesman, I would have to be in the wrong business if I couldn't make this work for both me and the average mom-pop client.

    I wasn't happy with the cavalier way in which Telerik made this announcement, but in light of their explanation it's starting to make sense to me. I think we have to rid ourselves of this ridiculous view that we are entitled to free software. If Telerik can make the CSS and code customization of Sitefinity a more friendly and less time-consuming process, I can easily deliver the goods to a small business for under the $5K mark. If a client can't afford this, don't take the job - move on.

     
  26. Cormac
    Cormac avatar
    11 posts
    Registered:
    02 Jun 2008
    26 Mar 2010
    Link to this post
    Thanks Gabe for refocussing this.

    I havent given it too much thought but lets look at the what most of these micro-businesses 'need' rather than want.

    1. Its really to establish an online presence,
    2. start marketing themselves,
    3. Give them the ability to update their site and add to it over time (blog/news/page)
    4. to tie in with third party feeds e.g. facebook flickr twitter (done through page / rtb)
    5. Provide them with stats.
    6. Languages to keep it international

    Over and above that I think we are looking at add on's or upgrades. If you want that 'for free' an opensource project is the way to go. If they need these additional modules/features, they can pay for the premium CMS.

    This is why a lot of developers use Wordpress for micro-businesses. An uncomplicated updatable site for cheap. There are add ons etc but its not Dotnetnuke.

    Community Server with Graffitti started going down this promising path but backed out http://graffiticms.com/. Im sure you've seen that.  Also you should look at the Activecollab relaunch issues which we were looking at at the time (go to old forum posts to see the reaction to pricing!!!).

    Limitations that would satisfy the needs of most small business looking to get an updatable small website, would look something like the below:
    1. Normal Pages (possibly limit templates - I dont know if this is even feasible)
    2. One or maybe two modules - probably blog or news
    3. 1-3 users (no versioning or workflow or anything like that).
    4. You could throw in newsletter as its very basic too.

    This will allow most development companies to service most customers through using Telerik. This includes the RAD controls, Sitefinity 'premium' and sitefinity 'basic'.

    I'm not sure going 'Freemium' is correct for the target market either. I think there should be two pricing points (at least). Keep it simple and professional.

    Another tuppence worth!!!




  27. MB
    MB avatar
    302 posts
    Registered:
    09 Jan 2005
    26 Mar 2010
    Link to this post
    Just adding to the mix.

    I dont know what the law is like in other countries, but where I live, a company cannot sell a product such as a software package, and not provide any support direct for it.

    Free software with community support only, no problem... but as soon as it is sold, a minimum commercial warranty is required.

    Of course, Telerik's current support level is way and above what would be considered an acceptable minimum for an entry-level product, but there must be some direct support to satisfy the warranty requirement, particularly during an initial "installation" phase.

    Typically, for entry-level products, it's something along the lines of, free support for 90 days with a limit of n events, and free access to community forums for ongoing support.
  28. Steve
    Steve avatar
    3037 posts
    Registered:
    03 Dec 2008
    27 Mar 2010
    Link to this post
    Yeah, we have at least two products which have an annual maintenance contract of over $10,000....neither of those comes even remotely close to what telerik has in terms of support...and I mean NO WHERE close

    Fantastic company
  29. james
    james avatar
    6 posts
    Registered:
    27 Apr 2009
    01 Apr 2010
    Link to this post
    Hey,
    as you can see i'm using sitefinity community edition:
    http://www.jamespeckham.com/sitefinity

    but i do not have the ability to download it in the downloads section of this site. I definitely downloaded it on my account originally. I intended to use this for a non-profit organization who wished to test the waters. Once things get rolling is there an upgrade path to 4.0 if they are able to afford it? our primary concern is getting up and running cheaply (it's non-profit and donors are slim at the beginning).

    Can you help me get access to download community edition? 

    thanks.
  30. bemara57
    bemara57 avatar
    135 posts
    Registered:
    27 Mar 2008
    01 Apr 2010
    Link to this post
    My input is to keep things simple by making the Free/Community/Lite versions same as Enterprise, but only limiting the # of users and a few other things (versioning, multi-language, and workflow are perfect for Enterprise).

    If a company can afford to pay employees, then they can afford to buy an enterprise version. Otherwise limiting the features of the scaled down version will stunt the growth of community contributions.
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